25-03-2002 08:25									#1
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the Domestic "Nag". Everytime I reach the Industrial Era, I keep losing interest in the game, and one of the major reasons is that I just can't stand having her pop up everytime a city creates a new building. There's really no point in her coming up a dozen times per turn, a single production report would be all that's required. So many times, there's something I've wanted to do in the game, but after dealing with her over and over again, I forget what it was. Please Firaxis, I beg you, simplify the process!!!

	25-03-2002 08:50									#2
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Am I missing something? Nobody pops up when I complete a building. Is this an option you have turned on and I have off?

	25-03-2002 09:22									#3
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There's one preference, something about "Ask for build orders..." which I have turned off. Yet I still get her popping up everytime a city completes a building, regardless of whether I have a build queue or not. Nothing after a unit, but for improvements, she's on my screen as soon as it gets completed. Maybe it is bug, I seem to have a couple of others as well, i.e. I can't cancel trades. If that's the case, then I would seriously consider taking the game off my hard drive because of it. I'm finding it extremely annoying!

	25-03-2002 09:29									#4
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I agree. One production screen would be nice, but i like having them tell me when i complete something, Keeps me orginized

	25-03-2002 09:36									#5
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OK, I see why I don't get the message. I usually have the governer turned on. You can still set a build que, but they wont let you know when it's done. Just turn the goverber on and set the build que up.

	25-03-2002 17:55									#6
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If you're building military units, there is an option to always build prior unit. That's good since you don't get the popup, and you keep building those units you want.

Another thing is in 1.17f, is the drop shadow thing. When I check it the domestic adviser only pops up when there is rioting.

	25-03-2002 19:16									#7
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quote: Originally posted by The Rook OK, I see why I don't get the message. I usually have the governer turned on. You can still set a build que, but they wont let you know when it's done. Just turn the goverber on and set the build que up.

No thanks, I prefer not to play my games on autopilot. Besides, after seeing the governor start to build an Aqueduct in a size 4 city, I can't ever trust him. He's to stupid.

	25-03-2002 19:19									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 If you're building military units, there is an option to always build prior unit. That's good since you don't get the popup, and you keep building those units you want. Another thing is in 1.17f, is the drop shadow thing. When I check it the domestic adviser only pops up when there is rioting.

How does the drop shadow have anything to do with the Domestic Nag? Isn't that option just a graphic preference? And I wasn't talking about building units. As I said, it's only an issue when a city creates an improvement.

	25-03-2002 19:25									#9
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quote: Originally posted by rogue785 I agree. One production screen would be nice, but i like having them tell me when i complete something, Keeps me orginized

I understand but as it is now, she gets out of hand. There's no reason why they can't have all the improvements completed in one phase, then show a report listing all that's been done. And if I have a build queue set up, I really shouldn't have to kill her screen a dozen times per turn, just to confirm the next thing on my list.

	25-03-2002 19:29									#10
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You are sooooooo right Willem! One report would be awsome. And then from that report we could choose what we want to build next. And that report would ignore all the cities we have "building lists" with, unless that could be in a seperate report or another section.

Spec.

	25-03-2002 19:33									#11
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Is there an option to make the "aqueduct reminder" go away? I really hate that. Civ II had one.

	25-03-2002 19:36									#12
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quote: Originally posted by The Rook OK, I see why I don't get the message. I usually have the governer turned on. You can still set a build que, but they wont let you know when it's done. Just turn the goverber on and set the build que up.

I've never used governors before. How do they fit in to your games? Are you capable of playing winning campaigns on emperor/deity?

The queue (properly spelled?) option doesn't feel intuitive neither,..., in comparison to eg CTP you now have to work harder to set up a queue: 1) zoom to city 2)shift h to fill up the queue list

Why does one have to use shifts for standard operations (like in the stack command ...)

Firaxis also needs to retune the interface if you ask me ...

An extra suggestion might be 1) (mentioned by many others before --> a news report such as in MOO2) 2) a general command interface on the main screen, where you can easily direct stacks, make general commands etc --> a little bit such as in AOE2).

AJ

P.S.: if Firaxis keeps working on implementing the best ideas that were/are proposed on these forums, they'll definitely create the best game so far and will easily expand its lifetime ...

Come on you guys, get some working done ..!

	25-03-2002 21:33									#13
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quote: I understand but as it is now, she gets out of hand. There's no reason why they can't have all the improvements completed in one phase, then show a report listing all that's been done. And if I have a build queue set up, I really shouldn't have to kill her screen a dozen times per turn, just to confirm the next thing on my list.

Ah, See, I rarely use the build queue, so I never thought of that. But now that I think of it, the times i did use it, the domestic advisor popped up to tell me I'm finished. I don't use it enough to be annoyed by it though

quote: Is there an option to make the "aqueduct reminder" go away? I really hate that. Civ II had one.

The Aqueduct/ Hospital reminders are nice in a way. Sometimes I'll forget about a city and having that window pop up to tell me it's ready to expand lets me know that it's a decent city.

But sometimes it gets annoying like when you have a city that isn't gonna last long once it expands, but the advisor reminds you of it like once every 20 turns or something?

Maybe an option to turn down the frequency of the aqueduct/hostpital reminder?

	26-03-2002 00:03									#14
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I love the Nag. Who else would suggest I switch to a hospital on the same turn I'll complete Hoover Dam? No I didn't want all those hydro plants, I'd much prefer a city that'll produce huge amounts of pollution, especially after I put in the coal plant. The Nag is very cool, single-minded in pursuit of lots and lots of digital population.

	26-03-2002 00:44									#15
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I use the governor coupled with the build que to run my cities. I check every turn or so to make sure they are building what I want them to build. Sometimes the governor will start building something I would have built anyway. That's less clicking for me. I don't understand why people won't use the governor. You don't HAVE to build what he wants to build, and you get hassled less by the "Nag." The only time the governor can be a pain is if you don't catch him on time, and he builds something you didn't want, but that's really your own fault for not checking on him.

Try using the governor. You can customize him for each of your cities. Big time saver, even if you never build what he thinks you should.

	26-03-2002 01:55									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Willem How does the drop shadow have anything to do with the Domestic Nag? Isn't that option just a graphic preference? And I wasn't talking about building units. As I said, it's only an issue when a city creates an improvement.

Well, with the dropshadow option checked, it just builds somthing else, even when finished with an improvement.

	26-03-2002 03:19									#17
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I always thought they should havea single pop up ala Master of Magic telling you of all your cities that went up a pop.

	26-03-2002 04:04									#18
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quote: Originally posted by The Rook I use the governor coupled with the build que to run my cities. I check every turn or so to make sure they are building what I want them to build. Sometimes the governor will start building something I would have built anyway. That's less clicking for me. I don't understand why people won't use the governor. You don't HAVE to build what he wants to build, and you get hassled less by the "Nag." The only time the governor can be a pain is if you don't catch him on time, and he builds something you didn't want, but that's really your own fault for not checking on him. Try using the governor. You can customize him for each of your cities. Big time saver, even if you never build what he thinks you should.

Well if I have to check in on the gov in each and every city, every single turn, that ends up being more work than just setting up a build queue. My last game I think I had maybe 100 cities, and there's no way I want to go into each one just to make sure the gov's not building something stupid, which it usually does if left alone. The only time I've found it useful was when I was in a war as a Democracy, and my war weariness was starting to build up.

	26-03-2002 04:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Well, with the dropshadow option checked, it just builds somthing else, even when finished with an improvement.

Well there must be some bug happening because as far as I know, the drop shadow thing is just a graphic preference. I really can't see how that would have an effect on build orders. If you'd care to explain how it works, I'd love to be proven wrong.

	26-03-2002 04:13									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Munroe I always thought they should havea single pop up ala Master of Magic telling you of all your cities that went up a pop.

I don't see why it can't be done, having her pop up a dozen times in a turn is just redundancy. It could quite easily be dealt with in a single list, and be much less aggravating. I've reached the point where I dread getting into the Industrial Era, since with the building boom I go through then, she'll be pestering me constantly. It's not my idea of fun to say the least. And it would no doubt shorten the time a turn takes, which would certainly be welcome at that point.

	26-03-2002 04:35									#21
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The "Domestic Nag" is the pop-up that occurs when she asks if you want to change to building aqueducts/hospitals. This is annoying when you have entire continents with 1 shield 1 gold cities littered everywhere. Not only do you not want to increase costs from that area and pollution, but you don't want to be reminded every 10 turns about it either!!

Now for the good news.

In the last chat, Soren aknowledged that the Domestic Nag was a problem that we customers wanted fixed.
Hopefully as an option so that people like rogue who like it can keep it.

	26-03-2002 04:46									#22
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quote: Hopefully as an option so that people like rogue who like it can keep it.

That would be great

	26-03-2002 05:12									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns In the last chat, Soren aknowledged that the Domestic Nag was a problem that we customers wanted fixed. Hopefully as an option so that people like rogue who like it can keep it.

Oh man, that is such good news! I gave up on my last game because of that, I just couldn't take it anymore. It was just turning into a monotonous routine of hitting the Enter button over and over again, even though I had gone to the trouble of setting up building queues. It's nice to be kept informed, but I'm sure there's a much less aggravating way of accomplishing this.

	26-03-2002 09:36									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Well if I have to check in on the gov in each and every city, every single turn, that ends up being more work than just setting up a build queue. My last game I think I had maybe 100 cities, and there's no way I want to go into each one just to make sure the gov's not building something stupid, which it usually does if left alone. The only time I've found it useful was when I was in a war as a Democracy, and my war weariness was starting to build up.

OK, so if you get your wish, and the "nag" goes away, now each turn you will have to check your cities just like you would if the governor was building for you. It's the exact same thing. Unless the nag pops up and tells you the temple is done, you would only know if you checked. Besides, what happens if the governor is turned off, and your temple is done, but you don't change the build order and you don't have a que set up? Does the city just sit there and build nothing? At least the governor will start something, and if you don't like it, you change it.

	26-03-2002 17:53									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Well there must be some bug happening because as far as I know, the drop shadow thing is just a graphic preference. I really can't see how that would have an effect on build orders. If you'd care to explain how it works, I'd love to be proven wrong.

It must be a bug for me then (I've always wondered why they called it drop shadow to begin with). Cause the demostic advisor never pops up unless there is rioting with that checked. Personaly, I don't use it much since I rather be told about a city that finished something, because otherwise I might forget.

	26-03-2002 19:33									#26
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It's one of those things that needs to be toggleable.
Some people like it; some people hate it.
The simplest solution is to be able to choose at the beginning or even during the game to switch this on or off.

Robert

	26-03-2002 19:44									#27
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quote: Originally posted by kailhun It's one of those things that needs to be toggleable. Some people like it; some people hate it. The simplest solution is to be able to choose at the beginning or even during the game to switch this on or off. Robert

I'm getting a feeling that Civ3 is going to be one big toggable program.

	27-03-2002 00:53									#28
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quote: Originally posted by kailhun It's one of those things that needs to be toggleable. Some people like it; some people hate it. The simplest solution is to be able to choose at the beginning or even during the game to switch this on or off. Robert

No, I think it just needs to be handled differently. There's no contest that the player should be informed about what gets built in his/her cities, but it doesn't have to occur a dozen times per turn. A single report would be more than sufficient. Anything else is just overkill and ends up becoming tedious and frustrating.

	27-03-2002 01:10									#29
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I agree with that idea. A single sheet at the end would be good.

However I don't really have all that much problem with this specific aspect of the Domestic Imbecile. I bet I would though if I played on huge maps. I sure didn't like it when I have tested some of the saves that have posted to see what was going wrong in them.

I do like the rioting pop ups though. It gives me a chance to scroll through all the cities and fix them before the Domestic Arsonist sets them all on fire.

Something needs to be done about that firebug. A straight jacket and thorazine perhaps. Electro-shock therapy might do it. Teach her to let my people get war weary. Its her job why doesn't she do it. Set Nurse Ratched on her. Then get out the lobotomy knives. Better yet, let Montezuma trepan her. He could air her closed little mind out real good with an obsideon knife.


I am running out of rants. Please help.

	27-03-2002 02:12									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred However I don't really have all that much problem with this specific aspect of the Domestic Imbecile. I bet I would though if I played on huge maps. I sure didn't like it when I have tested some of the saves that have posted to see what was going wrong in them.

Well I do play on huge maps, 256 X 256 in fact, so it certainly is an issue for me. That last game I've been ranting about I think I may have been approaching 100 cities. When I went through my Industrial building boom, all hell broke loose and it seemed like I was doing nothing but hitting the Enter to shut that screen off. It was especially bothersome since all I was doing was confirming what I had put in my building queues in the first place. The only time I find that message useful is when I reach the end of the list.