25-03-2002 13:00									#1
	AI workers altering my improvements Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A heads up,

In my current game I have a ROP with the Americans. They had some cities just north of my borders that had no access to fresh water. So the AI decides to start irrigate from a irrigated square inside my territory. Fair enough, itīs a smart move, since we have a ROP-agreement.

What I donīt like is that the AI worker starts to irrigate squares that I have previously mined. That canīt be right? I mean itīs ok (to an extent) that the AI works inside my territory but they shouldnīt be able to alter and destroy tile improvements already built. That should either be an explicit no-no or an act of war if the AI chooses to do it anyway.

What do you guys think?

//Ced.

	25-03-2002 13:33									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I agree with you, and you don't even have to have a ROP for it to happen. Workers, like other units with no attack, cannot cause a leave-or-declare-war situation.

Having said that, it's pretty funny to start planting forests on AI irrigated grasslands and watch his cities starve!

[edit: I just had a scout that was asked to leave-or-else, so I guess units with no attack CAN be perceived as a threat.]

Last edited by alexman on 26-03-2002 at 21:45

	26-03-2002 01:48									#3
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Have any of you noticed if the AI workers just do it to the human-controlled areas, or have you ever seen them doing it to each other also?

I'm curious to know if its just generally a blind spot in the AI programming with regards to borders, or if its targetted against us specifically.

	26-03-2002 01:52									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That must be a bug, the only time my workers leave my borders is if another civ cut my land in two on the same continent. With or without ROP

	26-03-2002 02:52									#5
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If you view his turning your mines into irrigation projects as an act of war, declare war!

Actually, one of the things that bugs me about Civ games in general is that their concept of what constitutes an "act of war" tends to be a little too black and white. For example, in CTP, my preferred philosophy would generally be to view pirates, slavers, or heretical clerics operating against me as outlaws deserving of enslavement or death. But I can't tell the AI that that's my policy and leave it up to the AI to decide whether it really wants to call my bluff. Similarly, in Civ 3, I have no way of telling the AI that my official policy will be to enslave any settlers that try to move through my land without permission, so the AI will always act as if such movement across foreign borders is just fine.

In such cases, if I take action, war is automatic rather than the AI having to decide whether my action was serious enough to be worth fighting over given its own role in precipitating the incident. I can't make the threat in the hope that the AI will back down. Further, I can't have world opinion (not to mention my own people's moralie in Civ 3) reflect the fact I acted only in response to what I regarded as a serious provocation by the AI. That can be a bit limiting and frustrating at times.

I have no illusions that it would be easy to design an AI that truly understands all the shades of gray between "just fine" and an outright attack on foreign soil. But I can still wish for at least a little bit better understanding of such nuances.

Nathan

	26-03-2002 06:32									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Cedronian,
As a practical matter, after these foreigners have changed your mines to irrigation, just go ahead and change them back to mines,* leaving him with an irrigated tile to link to.

Your situation with those workers is not something I have experienced yet. OTH, I'm only on my 6th game (or is it my 5th?).

*Assumes, of course, that you have excess workers. I hope you weren't in a wonder race with that city at the time.

JB

	26-03-2002 07:17									#7
	Put an end to popups!

If you're feeling particularly resentful towards the AI's irrigation, and the workers are not right next to your borders, you can do something really evil. Station a line of defensive troops along your border and on your side of it such that they are between the AI territory and the AI worker. Not sure what happened when I tried it, but it was fun....

	26-03-2002 19:50									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have the same type of problem, though not the same specifically. My problem is with the automation on my workers. Generally, I place my cities near high-food producing land (grass, wheat, cattle, flood plain) that need shields. So I mine all that land. But then my automated workers come by and say "Hey, let's irrigate here!" So they destroy my beautiful mines and make irrigation even though I don't want my city to grow anymore right then! I end up having to un-automate my workers and control them manually, which gets tedious.

Is there any way to tell my workers not to destroy any existing improvements? I haven't checked the options menu since I got 1.17f.

	26-03-2002 20:05									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just use Shift+A to automate the workers, then they will not destroy the existing improvements.

	26-03-2002 20:13									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Borg Hunter Is there any way to tell my workers not to destroy any existing improvements? I haven't checked the options menu since I got 1.17f.

Use shitf-A instead of just A. Then they won't destroy existing improvements.

	27-03-2002 16:53									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay If you view his turning your mines into irrigation projects as an act of war, declare war!

I suppose I could have done that, but it wasnīt the right time for warfare. I generally shy away from war until later in the game when I can completely obliterate my opponent in a couple of swift strikes with my superior armies

quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Cedronian, As a practical matter, after these foreigners have changed your mines to irrigation, just go ahead and change them back to mines,* leaving him with an irrigated tile to link to. JB

Yes, this is what I did. I followed his workers with my own, one step behind, and mined the tiles right back. A bit of a hassle, but it wasnīt the right time for me to start a war over it. Besides, I like seeing the AI make some smart moves (irrigating from my squares).

Iīm still playing that game, and the Americans decided to declare war a few hundred years later. Needless to say, his cities that needed irrigation, now instead got a funeral

Thanks for the replies guys!

//Ced.