29-03-2002 01:08									#1
	Why we need all Civs/nations for selection. Inflate your Upload Space

The 16 existing Civ3 nations do cover a big number of world-population, but that is not enough many Civs are forgotten or left behind. The selection is european biased.

this I wrote before:
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It is really hard to limit on 16 Civs. There are 6000 years of translocalhistory and until modern times there were at least 4 mainly independent worldregions that got all their dominating accelerating cultures and Civs. 16 will never be enough.

I already mentioned this I guess all nations, ex. the naturall nations, relate themselves to 1, 2 ore more successful Civs of history. Otherwise they wouldn't exist anymore today.

U can draw a line of development for every Nation that got its highlights and valleys. I mentioned Pakistan but it is really almost every country of today.

So that should be given in a patch or expansionpack. All nations or a legal nationmaker(not only the editor) for your own and your enemy Civs should be given.

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In different threads we collected arguments for Spainiards and Mongolians to be added. But the dicussion broke up the frame.

If u want I would like to collect arguments for every Nation/Culture-group/Civ why it should be chooseable.


As I said every todays nation got its highlights and valleys. If u want and know 1. u can declare them here. And that makes it more deep, 2. let's collect important invention or influences of that Civ on the world.

Those who think it had been discussed enough can let it be done by others. I especially want to hear argument for in europe and america less known Civs i.e. Siam/Thailand, Khmer and on and on.

The main sense is less to convince the Civ3-developers but to know more about cultures and history.
And this could be a place to collect these informations now spread everywhere.

	29-03-2002 01:16									#2
	@Mongolians Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

LordBashHeart:
From what I recall... Mongolia is the country attributed to having the record for controlling the largest amount of land ever.
They landed exploritory ships in Japan and scared those dudes, and also were at the gates of Venice. Thats beats Rome and certainly Spain from what I recall.


sargon2:
I remember that they developed an even for european standarts skilling cultur in China and India besides they got these caravan Oasis with their amazing architechture, and that are only the conquered and symbiotically developed. In their corland I guess they kept their natural style of life, not by unknowledge but because of beloved tradition.
And I know a Mongolian or one of the equal-statet helping nations like Tartars, Usbecs and so on could complete the list.
The idea of that basical helping nations is very important for the understanding of political development. That means they must have a highly developed art of justice to equalize that mutch interests - kinda Centralasian Union in that early times.

LordBashHeart:
The two Inventions of war that Mongolia had on its side were the Yak-horn bow which was bent back against itself, giving it an increadible amount of power, as opposed to the european bow which was just bent wood.
The other was the silk vest which all of its wariors wore, allowing arrows that have hit your person to be removed without tearing additional flesh, as the silk would be drawn into the wound and not pierced. This lightwieght armour, gave them amazing dexterity as opposed to their earopean, clad in metal enemies. They also looked cooler and were available in pinstripes and striking pastels (joke).

	31-03-2002 07:13									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

There should definitely be a limitless amount of civs to select from, however there shouldn't be any more than 16 at any one time.

Furthermore, these civs should be completely editable. If Firaxis were to focus on the gameplay issues and not the question of "Which civs should we include?" and leave that question for the player to answer with their selection of civs, there might yet be hope for this game to those who seem to so utterly hate it (not me).

	31-03-2002 23:09									#4
	Re: @Mongolians Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by sargon2 LordBashHeart: From what I recall... Mongolia is the country attributed to having the record for controlling the largest amount of land ever. They landed exploritory ships in Japan and scared those dudes, and also were at the gates of Venice. Thats beats Rome and certainly Spain from what I recall.

Problem with Mongolia: After one of their great leaders (Ghengis, Kublai, Ogodai, etc.) would die (always, of course, on campaign), the army would turn around and march to the main city/encampment, abandoning the war. The chief would be buried, there would be a little factional in-fighting, maybe some heirs would secceed, then everything would settle down. The new leaders would be too busy re-assembling the most important (i.e. populus, wealthy) lands, fighting amongst themselves. Towards the end of their reign they would have pacified their realm, then go on campaign again against outsiders. Then the chief would die. And so forth. THe mongols, therefore, really only held certain places for long periods of time. They also didn't leave behind much except devastation. Russia was impoverished for centuries, the Chinese economy stagnated, and the great irrigated plains of Central Asia were desertified.
Not really a great power, just a group of raiders and pillagers.

	02-04-2002 23:45									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The 16 civs that were included with the game are fine. I would love to see as many as possible. Gimme, gimme. I would love to see pages of choices for which civ to be and multiple choices for which leader to be as well. Even if they ended up being carbon copies of current ones and even having inaccurate UUs. Gimme Jamaicans, Incas, Canadians, Irish, Cubans, Brazilians, Nubians, Arabs, Inuits, Latvians, Siamese, Tibetans, Albanians, Morroccans, Spanish, Mongols, Olmec, Toltec. They're all civ-worthy. I want to pick from all of them and have 10 games in a row with no civs in more than one game when I select random opponents. So what if the Olmec UU ends up being a fighter plane or a modern armor replacement? It's just a game. There should also be a scenario builder so people who want historically accurate games can make them themselves and post them here for all of us to enjoy.

I agree with IronChancellor. The Mongols didn't do much besides kill people and burn stuff down. They were simply bullies.

	08-04-2002 03:00									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I don't quite agree about the mongols. In the beginning, they did indeed leave a lot of destruction in their wake, but which army doesn't? However, that is not all they did. The mongols created safe communication and trade routes all across their vast empire, they transmitted knowledge and science between east and west, and they united China. As emperor, Kublai Khan ruled all of China with great skill, while culture, trade and agriculture flourished. He was a great administrator, prefering taxing people to killing them (dead men pay no tax). The introduction of paper money is actually attributed to him. If this is not enough to classify as a civilization, I don't know what is. And to say the mongols were "not really a great power" is just ludicrous. At their time, they were probably the most powerful empire on earth.

	08-04-2002 20:01									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

IIRC the Mongols invented the Postal Service