29-03-2002 04:50									#1
	-Jrabbit conquest -- Spoiler Thread Inflate your Upload Space

-Jrabbit posted an 1800AD save in Campo's "Positioning to conquer a city" thread. He took this position to his first Deity win (by AC) and has now gone on holiday -- the temptation was too great so I have taken it on to victory by conquest.

Read no further if you do not want a spoiler ...
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	02-04-2002 00:31									#2
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You've put the pressure in Jrabbit now -- it'll be interesting to see how he does.

Could be instructive for him to compare his approach with yours. Come to think of it, I might like to do that with one of my games sometime.

	02-04-2002 14:54									#3
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I'd enjoy that Campo - some of the most enjoyable games I have played have involved taking over someone else's position and seeing what I can achieve -- there was a dirthole start posted some time ago (18 months?) that I really enjoyed too. -- unfortunately a quick scan of my HDDs has failed to locate it or I would have posted it again ...

	02-04-2002 17:40									#4
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Am I recollecting correctly that your main strategy leans towards ICS?

I generally play what could be called early perfectionist-later expansionist. Diety, Raging, 7 civs, usually small world and conquest.

I'll finishing my current game this weekend. The next time I start one (probably the weekend after) I'll post a save fairly early on for you to play. I have no doubt you'll beat my time, so it'll be interesting to see your save games.

	02-04-2002 18:37									#5
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Found it - the dirt hole start game - with apologies to the now regrettably forgotten poster that put it up ....
(requires MGE)

Attachment: ab_b4000.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	02-04-2002 18:41									#6
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If you only have 2.42 - you might try my latest game - I have just passed 100AD ...

Attachment: cv_b4000.sav
This has been downloaded 14 time(s).

	15-04-2002 21:34									#7
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High Priest Adipose Augustus - 1870AD
23,880,000 population
Score 1288 - 168% -- very high for me - this went straight to the top of my High scores Table!

Herewith a selection of saves:
1800; 1818; 1842; 1851; 1861; 1870

Attachment: jrabbit.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	15-04-2002 22:02									#8
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Okay, I've Civ3'd for a week or two, it's time to go back to CivII. I'll try the 1800 save game. I didn't feel like slogging thru the last 2 pages of that thread, so I don't feel I have any unfair knowledge of the game ahead of time. Will post results (unless they are too pathetic...) someday soon.

	15-04-2002 22:09									#9
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That Marquis is one cool Sodaqi...

	16-04-2002 07:06									#10
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OK, so here's mine.

conquest -- 1875 AD
Score -- 1,315
Rating -- 170 %
Population -- 22,910,000

Competitive with SG's score, but about 5 years too late. Save attached.

Interestingly, the Alpha Centauri version was roughly the same, score-wise.
1,425 score, for 185%. Population was 42,430,000.

I didn't gang my files when zipping, so there will be two more posts with interim results from 1848 (got espionage) and 1869 (began true endgame).

Attachment: -jrabbit 1875 a.d.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	16-04-2002 07:09									#11
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This is the 1848 save -- right after I got espionage, I believe. Penultimate turn as a commie. went to fundie in 1850/1851.

Attachment: -jrabbit conquest 1848.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	16-04-2002 07:14									#12
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OK,m then there was 1869 -- give a good idea of where I was when SG was about to claim his (1870) victory. I guess I could have been more aggressive prior to this, but frankly, I'd never managed as many units as this at once before, so I was pretty sloppy on some of the mechanics.

I'll probably go back someday and play this out in straight fundamentalist mode, to see if I can get it done a couple years sooner. Will also take a look at the SG game to see what went on there...

Anyway, that's all I've got. It's been a blast.

"These things are fun, and fun is good."
-The Cat in The Hat

Attachment: -jrabbit conquest 1869.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	16-04-2002 18:44									#13
	Re: Boss comparison Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit "These things are fun, and fun is good." -The Cat in The Hat

I'm tellin' ya, that's from "One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish", not cat in the hat!

"Did you ever fly a kite in bed?
Did you ever walk with ten cats on your head?
Did you ever milk this kind of cow?
Well, we can do it, we know how.
If you haven't, then you should.
These things are fun, and fun is good."

On topic, thanks for posting your results. I've downloaded the game from the other thread and will play this week...

	16-04-2002 19:20									#14
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Thanks for the correction, Marquis! That quote used to be in my signature and no one ever noticed the inaccuracy. I guess I'll give proper credit to T. Giesel in the future.

*-Jrabbit renews his membership in the Sodaquistas*

	17-04-2002 19:05									#15
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit *-Jrabbit renews his membership in the Sodaquistas*

Knowing Seuss from memory is one of the benefits of parenthood.

To celebrate your renewed membership in the party, I have won your 1800 save game (total conquest) in ~1866. I finished too late last night to even pay attention to details, so I will post them later.

(le marquis taking those last turns)

	17-04-2002 19:16									#16
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Well done M.le Marquis!

I thought my "record" would be short lived - so much went wrong.

SG[1]

	18-04-2002 01:10									#17
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Some milestones:
1808 - Sniveling Germans put out of their misery
1850 - fundamentalism!
1857 - Zulu wiped off the political radar
1866 - World purged of Persians
1867 - Celts accept their fate for a mere 414 gold


Score: 1187, rating 154%
Population: 19,500,000

The 1830s were a trying time. Many ironclads went to the bottom. Also, I lost about 8 veteran cavalry against the walls of Cardiff. 20+ turns later I took it with about a dozen fanatics and some cavalry. I nearly went broke rushbuying units early on. My general strategy was just to pump out bad boys and move them to the fronts as quickly as possible. I lost several galleys, but luckily only once while anybody was on board. One delay at the end was that it took me until about 1865 to even find the last 3 cities.

Just as in SG's game, it could have gone more smoothly.

Attachment: ad_a1867.sav
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	18-04-2002 01:20									#18
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I did it the other way -- Celts first, Persians last.
I think we all had our problems. (I recall a fully loaded, well-escorted transport going down.) I'd love to go back and do it again, but it wouldn't be fair -- I know where to find those missing cities.

Great job, Marquis!!!

(Maybe now Campo will take up the banner...)

	18-04-2002 11:30									#19
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I have always found Fundies to be far too unbalanced and Commies to be somewhat unbalanced. Notice that one really needs not ask what government is used for the end game in a conquest victory?

I always play with rules changed to Fundies pays support after 0 (Fundy units are zero support and half the shield cost of similar strength units, that's good enough) and Commies equivalent palace distance set to 8. That seems to put the three modern gov types on a more equal footing.

I also like to play with the limitation that I only change to a type of government once and stick with it.

	18-04-2002 18:19									#20
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Well, Straybow, set up a comparison game! You may decide the rules of play, see how others stack up.

I almost never play fundamentalism. I agree that it gives far too strong an advantage to that civ. The only reason I did in this game is because of the circumstance - complete conquest in under 70 years was my target.

LaFayette started some threads here (or was it in the General forum?) for scenarios. In the "Delenda Sunt" thread about the game's default Rome scenario, players managed to complete the game in under 50 turns without resorting to fundy or commie. I even managed to win as the celts - in despotism - in 99 years! The race against the clock is fun, try this game!

	19-04-2002 15:01									#21
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If you are playing against the AI and don't like Fundy - don't go there! Your proposed rules totally cripple 'Soft Fundy' from Leo's and make it non-viable - it seems to me that your games run much later than mine - it is extremely rre that Fundamentalism has been discovered before the end of my typical games...

SG[1]

	19-04-2002 22:21									#22
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quote: (Maybe now Campo will take up the banner...)

I got the file. If I can find time this weekend I'll give it a shot.

I had hoped to clean out the attic and basement, and work on the yard, but I'll try the game if I can get just one of them done.

	20-04-2002 02:37									#23
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This must be the thread for family men. Totally understand the spring cleaning thing, Campo -- same stuff going on in my world.

Hope you can find time for the game, but don't rush -- just have fun. (It took me 2 sessions.)

	23-04-2002 17:57									#24
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Well after I got my work done I had almost enough time to finish this game. I started with your 1800 save and played until the 1890's. There were still some Persian cities left and it looked like I'd probably pass 1900 before finishing the cleanup. At that point I was running out of time and so far past everyone else that I quit.

Jrabbit -- a few weeks ago I was givng you advice, and now you're beating my time. Maybe you've picked up something from Ming and rah after all.

I don't know how you guys play normal and large maps -- the turns took so long compared to what I'm used to. I'd only be playing 3 civ games a year if I didn't use small maps.

The game raised a point I've wondered about: what's the best strategy when the most powerful civ (after you) is located past some weaker civs. Generally I like to conquer the biggest one first, to prevent it from gaining more power while I'm tied up fighter the others. However there are problems when you have to go by weaker civs to do it. In this game I started after the Persians but the Zulus kept sinking my ships. After losing too many units I was really annoyed and went after them. What does everyone else do in this situation?

	23-04-2002 18:57									#25
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I'm certainly no expert, Campo, but I do go after it differently. I judge my attack priorities by board position, not relative strength. My biggest problem is when I have to fight allied civs on multiple front -- It prevents you from staging a cohesive assault, since you're always rushbuilding unplanned units to deal with problems like the Zulu-Persian one you had.

I went after the Celts first, using spies to bribe and ironclads and cavalry to attack. Meanwhile, I built ironclad patrols on the Persian/Zulu perimeter, using them to scout (hoping for the oppty to reach vet status) while I finished the rail network. Then, the same spy/cav attack plan. The Zulus were more accessible, so they went first. When I got to the Persians, I just made it a point to go for the capital first (took about 7 or 8 spies before the walls came down). No civ stands long after that.

IIRC, SG(1)(?) went after the Persians first, too, so he might have some insight on attacking the strong civ first..

	23-04-2002 19:04									#26
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I had a problem finding the Persian capital. They were pretty spread out, and I looked in the wrong places first. That didn't help.