29-03-2002 08:29									#31
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Imran, I guess a definition of terrorist in your eyes would be helpful.

	29-03-2002 08:32									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yes, against Osama, but what justification does that give for increasing the money we give to fight rebels in Columbia (who engage in terrorism from time to time).

We don't need Al-Qaeda to give us the pretext to do that, Imran. The WoD already gives us that excuse so that would have happened anyway.

quote: What does that have to do with perhaps going into Georgia to destroy rebels there?

By all accounts the Pankisi Gorge seems to be a Al-Qaeda base of somesort, which isn't suprising given the links between the Chechen rebels and bin Laden's organization.

FYI, we aren't going into Georgia anyway. The mission there is to train thier army to deal with the problem.

quote: And can you prove that Palestinian suicide bombers were military?

Yes, I can prove that at least one group of them are directly linked with Fatah.

Btw, If you are seriously going to tell me that an "army" consisting of:

National Security:
8,500-strong, routine security ops

Force 17:
3,300-strong presidential bodyguard

Military Intelligence:
600 officers, counter-intelligence, internal security

Preventive Security:
:3,000-strong, internal security force

General Intelligence:
800 officers, counters Israel security ops

Palestinian Police:
12,000-strong police force

Maritime Police:
1,000-strong

can not control its own population, I have to seriously question Arafat's ability to deliver on any and all security agreements even assuming that he wanted peace.

	29-03-2002 08:34									#33
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Sharon should of finished off Arafat when he had him under siege in Lebanon.

	29-03-2002 08:44									#34
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quote: Like who Imran? Like who? Nobody.

Um... look at Latin America from after WW2.

And remember Saddam is our dictator (since you brought him up).

quote: Imran, I guess a definition of terrorist in your eyes would be helpful.

Killing of civilians in order to advance a political goal.

quote: If you are seriously going to tell me that an "army" consisting of: can not control its own population

They can't... when you have fanatical groups running around, with massive power base, it is hard to control them.

quote: Sharon should of finished off Arafat when he had him under siege in Lebanon.

And someone should put a bullet into the back of Sharon's skull.

	29-03-2002 08:48									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui They can't... when you have fanatical groups running around, with massive power base, it is hard to control them.

Could he at least try to do so since he has been for quite sometime on the cusp of achieving a Palestinian State? Otherwise, he truely is irrelevent.

	29-03-2002 08:50									#36
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Welcome to the dark side, Imran.

quote: Alright... this entire thread is a troll, and is pathetic. Like who Imran? Like who? Nobody.

Like your favorite gov't, that of Colombia.

	29-03-2002 08:51									#37
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Hey Imran and Ramo this is all I will say:

Ramo, get a freaking clue... the Colombian Government is democratically elected. Uribe will win in the next elections.

	29-03-2002 08:51									#38
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Cusp of statehood? If anyone unilaterally declares a Pal state, Israel has said it would declare war. Showing that Israel has the power over statehood.

	29-03-2002 08:52									#39
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You haven't stolen Imran's account have you, Ramo?

	29-03-2002 08:53									#40
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No

As you know, I've kind of not been critical of Palestinian freedom fighting (I know you are going to howl at this).. this is a logical extention, I think .

	29-03-2002 08:54									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Cusp of statehood?

*cough*Camp David*cough*

	29-03-2002 08:54									#42
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Of course not!

He's actually my DL.

	29-03-2002 08:55									#43
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quote: Killing of civilians in order to advance a political goal.

That means every country in the world is a terrorist country. Time for a new world war free-for-all. Most countries used clearly marked soldiers to do the dirty work though. And if Arafat is not responsible for the Hamas and PLO attacks how is the US culpable for somthing a dictator it backs does?

	29-03-2002 08:56									#44
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quote: Of course not! He's actually my DL.

Oh that explains it.... Break his legs!

	29-03-2002 08:57									#45
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc *cough*Camp David*cough*

You mean that total BS of a 'peace agreement'

They knew Arafat could accept it... and have Jerusalem blocked off to them? Yeah right.

	29-03-2002 08:58									#46
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quote: Originally posted by cia And if Arafat is not responsible for the Hamas and PLO attacks how is the US culpable for somthing a dictator it backs does?

Just wanted to reiterate this point

	29-03-2002 09:02									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You mean that total BS of a 'peace agreement' They knew Arafat could accept it... and have Jerusalem blocked off to them? Yeah right.

I assume it was "couldn't" accept it.

From the politcal analysis I've read, Arafat had the mandate from arab countries to accept what he wanted.

Furthermore, I'm not sure, but I think we granted them some sort of rule over east Jerusalem.

	29-03-2002 09:03									#48
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quote: Just wanted to reiterate this point

Why? The US government has control over who it backs and doesn't. Arafat doesn't have a choice over who lives in his state .

	29-03-2002 09:04									#49
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Imran, I understand that your country's past troubles you.

However, in the current situation, your country does have a moral high ground.

Assuming it stopped employing terror, it has full right to retaliate against the current terror, and to decide to rid the world of terror.

It's never too late to wise up.

	29-03-2002 09:05									#50
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But Siro... it is stupid.

It just reiterates the idea that the US is trying to tell everyone else what to do. That and the cost of the whole thing... Yikes!

	29-03-2002 09:05									#51
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Imran, you're a farce. You got all worried, when we talked about attacking Afghanistan and claimed we wouldn't get Pakistani cooperation. I have a hard time taking seriously the angst of a 23-year old who doesn't have the guts/honesty to introduce his non-Muslim g/f to his Muslim parents.

A Rutgers poly sci guy with your language abilities could be uesful to this country...if you really loved it and if you had some guts. I get the impression you are more of a "milk and honey" type guy. So I'm not too worried about you getting scared.

	29-03-2002 09:08									#52
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So I don't love this country because I'm critical of it? I thought that was a right of mine? In fact the best patriots are those that question what we are doing (King, Jr. comes to mind).

	29-03-2002 09:08									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Just wanted to reiterate this point Why? The US government has control over who it backs and doesn't. Arafat doesn't have a choice over who lives in his state

tsk tsk tsk.


Arafat has control over his jails.
And by setting hundreds of terrorists free in the autumn of 2000, he proved himself directly responsible.

Proofs have been found in the Orient house, that Arafat pays known terrorists from the Fatah Al-aksa brigades and the Tanzim. A document ordering payment to know terrorists signed by him was found.

The terrorist that blew up yesterday, was reported by Israel over half a year ago. He was arrested and released after a short while.

Then, in the recent period Israel again requested to stop him. Nothing was done. Even though Israel stopped fire with Zinni's arrival.

	29-03-2002 09:09									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Why? The US government has control over who it backs and doesn't. Arafat doesn't have a choice over who lives in his state .

Abbas Zaki, a member of the Central Committee of Fatah, said that Hamas’s attacks “strengthen the Palestinian position. . . . It would be dangerous to stop these actions, because the accords will crumble if there is nothing to make Israel go forward.”

The PLO-PA’s Justice Minister Freih Abu Medein, declared that “the PLO and the [Hamas] opposition complement each other. . . . We regard Hamas and Islamic Jihad as national elements. . . . The main enemy, now and forever, is Israel.”

	29-03-2002 09:13									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But Siro... it is stupid. It just reiterates the idea that the US is trying to tell everyone else what to do. That and the cost of the whole thing... Yikes!

As long as US is telling everyone to do the right thing - fine.

A complete and utter war on terror is in place now, or in the future, terror attacks such as 9/11 will be very very widespread.

1st step - destroying current terror foundations.

2nd step - investing in economy and education of states who are potencially a terrorist haven.

Granted, the US have successfully forgot to fulfil the 2nd step in all wars except WWII. In WWII it did support germany and the allies started "de-nazification". That's why there are little Nazis there now.

	29-03-2002 09:13									#56
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And certain members of the US government say things like kill all Muslims (some Republican in Congress actually said something like this), Dino... so?

Siro... are terrorists to be locked up for life? Maybe their term was up. The fact is that Arafat CANNOT stop Hamas or Islamic Jihad. The US can easily withdraw support of a dictator... like Saddam when he took Kuwait.

	29-03-2002 09:16									#57
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quote: As long as US is telling everyone to do the right thing - fine.

You mean when we bombed Sudan, because they were involved in terrorism and ended up hitting a medical plant?

A lot of times we aren't doing things for the right thing, but for the political thing.

	29-03-2002 09:18									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And certain members of the US government say things like kill all Muslims (some Republican in Congress actually said something like this), Dino... so?

They usually get rebuked by someone higher up. Show me where Arafat rebuked the people shouting "Kill all Jews!"

	29-03-2002 09:20									#59
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He has in the past... the media just doesn't like to put it on Page 1.

	29-03-2002 09:22									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui He has in the past... the media just doesn't like to put it on Page 1.

That's a non-answer. If I can dig up quotes from the 90's, you can to.