30-03-2002 16:49									#1
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Does the AI ever forget the way you treated another civ badly? Doesn't the manual say somewhere that they are suppose to?

I declared war on England in 430AD while i was making payments of 1 gold/turn + 7 or 8 gold for a worker i bought. Had about 5 turns left. I wanted to wait, but Persia was gobbling up all her cities.

It is now mid 1400's. England is long gone from the game. It is well over 100 turns and about 1000 yrs later.

The only other thing i may have done badly was declaring war on Persia. But i had no trade deals and no units in thier territory when i cancelled it thru the diplomatic window. I do not believe this event affected my standings with the others. I also paid everyone else for an alliance.

To purchase a one time item from the AI, it wants approx 4X lump sum price as per turn payments.

It tends to also refuse lump sum payments for per turn items. The exact reverse of the expected situation.

I normally do not declare war while i have trade deals going in the early to middle game, but this seems like an overreaction by the AI. This is also why i haven't noticed this in previous games.

	30-03-2002 20:05									#2
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It all depends on what you did.

If you declared war on someone with a ROP with you, chances are the AI will never forgive you. Most other things require some sort of time before they can trust you.

Of course, the AI can also just not like you for stupid reasons.

	30-03-2002 22:09									#3
	Does the AI ever forget? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No.

	30-03-2002 22:29									#4
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The AI does eventually return its relations with you to normal... but there is always a higher cost for deals, and a smaller chance of an alliance, or that they'll help you in any way.

Steele

	31-03-2002 00:53									#5
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I'm talking about when they "would never accept such a deal". When asking them anyway, they reply "Not after the way you treated England."

I had ONLY the one 1 gold/turn deal with them at the time. I declared war thru diplomatic means w/ no troops on her territory. We had no ROP at the time.

Everyone else is polite with me and i even bought all thier alliances against Persia. That war is over as well.

Over 100 turns and 1000 yrs later, i am still hampered by having to maintain a large treasury because the per turn prices add up to 4X the lump sum deal. I haven't run into this before and it seems out of whack.

The penalties for breaking deals should be a certain # of turns. you shouldn't be paying for what you did 100 turns or 1000 yrs before for anything. Even pop rushing (another topic altogether).

I have also noticed that India is worse than the other civs. The Zulus seem a bit better but the deals are still bad

	31-03-2002 02:08									#6
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Try this one on for size. I am trying for a spotless reputation this time around, playing as Persia. I had an ROP & an MPP with Rome and the Chinese. China attacks Rome and the MPP kicks in. Now I am at war with China. After the war, my ROP with Rome expires. I contact Rome to renew it and they refuse, citing that I previously broke my ROP with China. I had no choice in the declaration of that war as per the terms of the MPP!

Eventually I am able to negotiate an ROP, if I want it, with Rome, but the cost is exorbitant: 2 techs, thousands of gold and 3 excess resources.

The short answer to your question: No, in fact it seems the AI seems to remember the crap you did to them from the previous games.

	31-03-2002 09:26									#7
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The AI is a joke.

It never forgets. It remembers stuff you SUPPOSEDLY did a thousand years before to another civ on a different continent - a civ that was exterminated long before the others ever knew it existed.

Another civ allied to you can make a separate peace with a civ you're at war with and nothing hapens to them. But if YOU forget you are screwed forever.


This is just one more thing that makes Civ III a major irritation.

	31-03-2002 10:09									#8
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The humans are often a joke.

Come on! How many of us ever forget it when we are forced to pay tribute to an AI civ? How about when one of them back stabs us?

I for one ensure that any AI that slights me big time does not see the end game, and I'll do anything possible to trip them up in the mean time.

About the 2 MPPs. MPPs are a bad idea exactly because of your experience. That and the possible domino effect of X goes to war, so Y goes to war, so Z goes to war, so you go to war. Wise statespeople rarely cede control of their destiny to other powers.

	31-03-2002 10:55									#9
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if any AI betrays me, it dies. if any AI threatens me, it dies. simple as that.

	31-03-2002 23:25									#10
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Think about it this way:
You start a new game and Germany starts off close to you. Before you're ready, they declare war and take a city. In the ensuing battles, you cannot reclaim the city and declare peace. Would you forget?

	01-04-2002 09:18									#11
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley Try this one on for size. I am trying for a spotless reputation this time around, playing as Persia. I had an ROP & an MPP with Rome and the Chinese. China attacks Rome and the MPP kicks in. Now I am at war with China. After the war, my ROP with Rome expires. I contact Rome to renew it and they refuse, citing that I previously broke my ROP with China. I had no choice in the declaration of that war as per the terms of the MPP! Eventually I am able to negotiate an ROP, if I want it, with Rome, but the cost is exorbitant: 2 techs, thousands of gold and 3 excess resources. The short answer to your question: No, in fact it seems the AI seems to remember the crap you did to them from the previous games.

Actually, if you think of it, this is realistic....

Germany got dragged into world war one by having an MPP with the Austrian empire. At the end of the war, Germany got all those heavy restrictions and everything. Actually, from a US point of view, Germany got WAY to many restrictions in the post World War One era... USA's only great beef with Germany was that they used "unfair submarine tactics (namely attacking without surfacing)"

Germany was dragged into World War one... and sufurred the worst taxes afterwards. Of course, they LOST... that might have something to do with it all...


Also, an interesting tidbit. The assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand could be seen as an act of terrorism. Austria wanted vengeance for the terrorism, and started World War oneby a chain of MPP's...

Now, everything up untill the vengeance against terrorists... doesnt that sound familiar? hmmm?