24-02-2001 03:34									#1
	Governments Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Enhanced detail, valu and historical accuracy re: governments would sure help. In terms of improvements, CTP did well by making Communism a useful model (high production), whereas in Civ2 it was utterly useless. Other features might include the enabling or disabling of certain city improvements when appropriate gov's are in place. To use the Civ2 "Communism" example again, in that game you were able to maintain stock exchanges under a system which prohibits the free market. It would be more historically accurate to disable such an improvements until, say, democracy was restored...

	24-02-2001 08:26									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm relatively new here, but has there been any discussion about the social engineering model from AC being applied to Civ3? I think they might be able to do that really well.

Gary

	24-02-2001 18:03									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

IMHO, what is most strange about the governments system in Civ is the way in which they're changed.

In Civ, governmental/idealogical change is a 'top-down' affair, whereby the head of state (the player) decides when revolution is to occur, and to what form of government it should lead.

In real life, revolutions are quite the opposite. It is the disenfranchised masses who start the revolutions (usually with a great deal of violence); and the head of state, and the members of society who benefitted from his/her regime, are deposed - and most of the time - put up against the wall...

It's all very well me bringing this up though, I dare say Civ III will have the same methods of governmental change as those in Civ II. That's fine by me. I can't see any way in which the Firaxis team could incorporate this more realistic vision of revolution into the game, and I don't think I'd want them to. It'd make the game far too complex.

Still, I thought it was worth bringing up.

	24-02-2001 19:39									#5
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Yes, in Civ, you're a god, and that's it. Such illogical stuff will have to stay. and also, how disturbing are they anyway?

	25-02-2001 10:17									#6
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While I disliked SMAC intensely, I must say that, playing CTP2, I really missed social engineering. Firaxis could take the Activision route and just add more governments (Facism is a must as is useful communism - BTW Communism was utterly useless in CTP1 until the Awesome AIPs mod was written not by Activision but by players. Also, to get the AI to use Communism in CTP2 one has to alter the strategies file themselves.) But I felt this was one of the minor misses in CTP2 - clinging to a game concept whose time was over, sort of like SMAC clung to "terraformers" after CTP1 introduced public works (the equivalent of maintaining your cavalry units in the age of tanks). I hope Firaxis does not resort to the old governments model but has some social engineering (please, please, please . . .)

	26-02-2001 18:49									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I think that throughout history most countries have adopted the government of the most sucessful civs around them... Thinking of the adaption of Democracy ex Soviet states, The abandanment of Judges in favour of Monarchy by the Jews (based on the fact that all the neighbours were doing pretty well under monarchy) .. Many Communist states in Africa based on the Russian model. I think that the leading nation, should influence the other players into considering that kind of government .. Also, opposing ideologies should conflict, and cause nations to like/dislike each other.

As a general rule, in history, no 2 Democracies have ever gone to war with each other ..