24-08-2000 18:19									#1
	Recommended reading for civ players Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The Harry Potter thread on the strategy forum has turned into something of a book discussion group; here's an "official" thread for that purpose.

I'll start off with two suggestions: first, for Lord of the Rings fans, I recommend Bored of the Rings by the Harvard Lampoon. I read this book about 25 years ago, but I still remember LMAO while reading it . In retrospect, it is probably somewhat sophomoric, but I was probably a sophomore when I read it . An approximate example from the mines of Moria:

quote: A dark figure emerged from the midst of the narcs. Written in cruel runes across his chest was the word "Villanova". "Aieeee!" cried Legolam, "a Ballhog!"

	25-08-2000 07:57									#2
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Two topical studies:

The Rise and Fall of Great Powers by Paul Kennedy

how nations get to be tops and what happens then...

The Great Game by Peter Hopkirk
England v Russia v nature in Central Asia - great intrigue in rugged unknown terrain. (Michael Dauman's scenario is a great addition)

	25-08-2000 14:00									#3
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I think 2 great books for Civ players to read are The Art of War by Sun Tzu and The Prince by Machiavelli. Though not essential reading are very interesting books and feature very strongly in Civ2!!!

and i might try that Bored of the Rings where do i get it from?

	25-08-2000 16:28									#4
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Oldman - your buddies at amazon.com have it. The authors are Beard and Kenney.

	25-08-2000 18:13									#5
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Cheers DaveV, ordered it from the .co.uk variety of amazon, it'll be on my doormat in 19 hours time for the grand price of £4.26!!!! God, i love the internet, ha ha!!!!!


Also, has anyone read much of the Pern Novels? by Anne McCathry (spelling?!?!) are they any good? i read a short story about some Runner of Pern, which was good...

	25-08-2000 18:28									#6
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Oldman - I read a Dragonriders of Pern series by Ann McCaffrey (I think), about 20 years ago (before I was married, or owned a computer, and I still read books ). Good light reading, not particularly memorable at this remove.

	25-08-2000 19:25									#7
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I've read almost all of them - haven't read the last couple. They are enjoyable to read, although McCaffrey has a tendancy in this series to retell the same story over and over again, but from different viewpoints and call it a different book. I've never been a fan of a writer putting out a book just to have a new title in a popular series, and in her later books (starting in the early 90's) it seems like her publisher was pushing her to do just that, not just in the Pern series (which is probably around 15 books or so), but with some of her other series as well. Basically, if it is pre-90's by McCaffery, I would probably recommend it. After that, it would depend on how much you want to find out what happened next in the worlds she created.

	25-08-2000 19:27									#8
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Fair enough DaveV, i won't bother buying, maybe if i see one in a Library i might read it...

What you guys ought to read though is The Day of the Triffids by John Wyndham, it's a damn good book, they just made a diabolical mess of the film!!!


Edit: Typo's
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited August 25, 2000).]

	25-08-2000 23:17									#9
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Red Mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars are fairly good despite the sequels being filled with a lot of BS. If you feel like ROFLOLMAOing, I recommend The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (with the four sequels), Catch 22 (with its sequel), and Red Dwarf (I didn't read the sequel yet, but my Chem teacher said it was good). Oh, and what omnipotent ruler can live without reading Brave New World and 1984?

------------------
St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

	25-08-2000 23:24									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Amen to all the above - with the slight caveat that McCaffrey remains one of my favourite authors, but I can see where SCG is coming from and I have not yet read 'Bored ...'
Can I add Raymond E. Feist on the fantasy side and (risking loads of flame and scorn) dare I mention Clancy on the current issue front - the first of these would certainly lend itself to a scenario - it probably already has ...
Good civin'

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	25-08-2000 23:31									#11
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SG{3}
I have to admit that my current favourite is Terry Pratchett probably because I've read little else for about a year and a half
I have just discovered Jon Courntney Grimwood, a very good if fairly heavy read would reccommend him to any one! And his bitter and twisted version of the future would be an enjoyable scenario!

	26-08-2000 15:08									#13
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For an insight into the rise and fall of civilisations, a pattern that's been repeated since recorded times, I'd recommend an old classic:

A Study of History by Arnold Toynbee

I only have the abridged illustrated edition (1972) co-authored with Jane Caplan but I reckon that makes a useful introduction. At a time when academic historians have taken to the analysis of minutiae, it is refreshing to get the whole picture.

	27-08-2000 22:13									#15
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Good reading-

Xanth Series by Piers Anthony

Any Turtledove alternate history book; notably "The Guns of the South"

Stainless steel rat books by Harry Harrison or Stars and Stripes forever, a funny look at the Civil war with Britain declaring war on everyone and the US taking over Canada.

Robert Asprin's "Myth" series

Any Alternate history

-Well that's about all the good reading that this -civ fan likes.

	28-08-2000 19:47									#16
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St Leo,

What is the sequel to Catch 22? I read this several years ago, and didn't realize that Heller made a sequel...

	29-08-2000 05:25									#18
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The Day of the Triffids film was pretty laughable especially when
the plants are being electrocuted by the fence (you can see the
humans in plant suits rustling around trying to act scary!)

The Dragonriders of Pern are all technically the same story and thus
boring. If you have read one you have read them all.

The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy is good in the first two books
but become increasingly more incoherent as the series progresses and
thus they become unreadable.

	29-08-2000 15:41									#20
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Anything by Neal Stephenson is good. They've all got plenty of comedy, violence and computer programming. What more could you ask for out of a book

	05-09-2000 18:21									#22
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well, gee, I would have thought Lews Therin here would have bumped up this thread and recommended Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series

well, I might as well do that. After all, I seem to remember seeing a map in the archives for randland (or WoT)

-------------------
T(one time)PB Mynal Silvar
Gaidin to Celes Sedai of the Green Ajah

(for anyone who may have mudded/played on TCS)

	06-09-2000 09:22									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The "sequel" to Catch-22 is "Closing Time". It is not exactly a sequel - Yossarian and a minority of other characters, and the majority of YoYo's neuroses, are retained for a story/fantasy set 50 years after the war.

I think Hueij might have got confused with another Heller book, "Something Happened", which was his second novel, I believe, and an excellent book in its own right, but not a sequel.

Heller was once challenged that he had never again written anything as good as Catch-22. He replied "Neither did anyone else".

A great read for Civers, IMHO, is "Guns, Germs and Steel", by Jared DIamond, which answers the question "How was Cortez able to conquer the Aztecs with 50 men" and poses, and answers "Why didnt the Aztecs land in Spain with 50 men, and conquer them first". Of course, we all know the answers to those, but it is a good read.

	06-09-2000 00:46									#24
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Civilization players should check out The Urantia Book,
It has a complete history of life and civilization
on this planet. It is extremely long(2000+pages)
and claims to be authored by celestial beings.
You can search the text at www.urantia.org

	08-09-2000 04:08									#26
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Late entry to a thread I had overlooked.

Yes, "Bored of the Rings" is hillarious. I read it when it first came out, and I dissolved into tears of laughter over the Ballhog bit. But you *have* to have read the LOTR for any of it to make sense since it is a parody.

Asprin's "MYTH" series is also superb spoof material of the whole genre, and I fully recommend it.

Along that same line, Civer's might enjoy the "Heroes in Hell" series, since it is much like a Civ game; people from all times jumbled together in Machiavellian chaos of diplomacy and warfare. Romans vs French vs Viet Cong vs etc.

"Guns, Germs, and Steel" is the best book for understanding true historical causality that I have ever read. In a true Civ nightmare, it shows how geography rules!

	08-09-2000 10:40									#27
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I cannot even express how emphatically I agree with the recommendation of Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel. I finished it a month ago, and I spent the entire book constantly reflecting on how phenomenally accurate a simulation Civ2 is of the processes described therein. The only thing Civ2 lacks is ecological differences reflective of the real world's climate and biota. And the book also contains a wealth of fascinating information that I, a reasonably well read fella, had never heard of (though many war-gamers may be much more familiar with some of it).

	08-09-2000 17:30									#28
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Bored of the Rings was terrific. But let's not forget the grand daddy of them all, Lord of The Rings.

And while these are not necessarily Civ2 related, the best series of books, IMHO, are the Tom Clancy books that follow Jack Ryan/John Clark and those by James Clavell.

Actually, I suppose Clavell's books could be Civ2 related. They deal with life in Japan, China/Hong Kong, and Persia. Okay, it's really Iran but you get the idea. But could someone tell me if I heard correctly? Did he pass away recently?

------------------
Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

	09-09-2000 01:51									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

For a Civish title, I firmly recommend The Player of Games by Iain M. Banks. According to the rumour mill, the game, Azad, which the book is set around is based on the authors addiction to Civ II!
In fact I recommend all of Bank's books, with or without the M. With means sci-fi, without means conventional literature. Just don't start with The Wasp Factory (his first book - interesting in it's way, but this is the one they study on english courses. Always a bad sign )

The Hitchhiker books are great, but it probably needs a physicist to get the last 2. His take on quantum mechanics and the many-worlds theory is excellent reading - but perhaps some people don't enjoy QM too much.. lol..
[This message has been edited by Simpson II (edited September 08, 2000).]