31-03-2002 08:31									#1
	CIV III: There is still Glory to be had... Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I have followed many threads on Apolyton complaining about this or that flaw in CIV III, and to be honest, many have some (or a lot of ) merit...

That being said, however:

There are still moments in the game that transcend the various difficulties: the "I wish Firaxis would have included...", the "why isn't the (insert appropriate issue here) more like it was in CIV II?", or the ever popular "I hope the next patch includes a fix for..."

I would like to propose that to leaven the negative comments, that we should also talk about the times when playing CIV III that we find GLORY!!! What has happened in your recent games that reminds you of why you love to play Civilization in the first place?

I'll start:

Last night, while playing an early (Ancient Age) game with the Greeks, I had one of those moments....

I have eight cities, the newest being on a sub-continent that I intend to expand into. I have two swordsmen in the area; one is near the new city (Pharsalos), one is exploring the dark depths of this new unknown lands...

My military advisor gives me news of a massive barbarian uprising near Delphi, which is my newest city on the old continent. After making preparations (adjusting the locations of my many phalanxes from Athens and other nearby cities towards Delphi), I take the precautionary measure of moving my exploring swordsman away from the barbarian encampment he was about to attack, retreating in the direction of Pharsalos.

Lucky me! Boiling out of the formerly benign encampment comes a horde of sixteen barb horsemen. The terrain is hills and mountains between the swordsman and P-town, so the barbs cannot make up my one-move lead. The other swordsman (in the new lands) retreats to P-town and fortifies. I change production from temple and rush-build walls, sacrificing a citizen (who was siphoning off the productive efforts of his fellow citizens anyways... )

One turn before the retreating unit reached the safety of the walls of P-town, a new barb threat appeared from the West (the other horde was following the swordsman from the East.)

These barb horsemen (12-16 ) came pouring out of the Western mountains and attacked the sword fortified in P-town...

It was a close thing, but my swordsman (Vet to begin,
Elite after...) was victorious. The swordsman from the East moved into P-town the next turn and fortified. Between the two, they barely managed to hold off the Eastern horde (both deep in the yellow at the end.)

I was proud. I was elated. It is moments like these that made me fall in love with the Civ series in the first place.

Despite all of its warts, if CIV III can provide me with experiences like this, then I feel my money was well spent... YMMV

What about you...?

Bob

	31-03-2002 09:37									#2
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Civ III invariably provides me with more irritation than enjoyment.

Be it the diarrhea of settlers flooding every open tile near my territory, stupid tech deals, an idiotic mod, Culture Flipping nonsense, or dozens of other things. . . including the game ending with a Diplomatic Victory when I told the game to NOT have a DV victory, whatever, there is always some irritation with the game.

With Civ II I always enjoyed it. And give me back Civ II's battleships in lakes rather than the dopey AI in Civ III.

	31-03-2002 11:01									#3
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well, besides the fact that Perisa went from being a Gracious MPP partner to a Furious war fighting civ, they did launch a decent offensive on one of my distant islands and actually held it for a few turns.

	31-03-2002 21:11									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle including the game ending with a Diplomatic Victory when I told the game to NOT have a DV victory

Try turning that option off next time. And don't even bother telling me you did. Serves you right for not remembering it every time.

	31-03-2002 21:16									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle Be it the diarrhea of settlers flooding every open tile near my territory,

what's wrong with that? is it, in your opinion, bad strategy? No. You want the territory for yourself. methinks that the game isn't being irritating. It is just beating the hell out of you.

	01-04-2002 08:11									#6
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Well, considering the only other civ game i've played was Civ for the SNES. I find civ3 a God sent since I don't to worry about stupid senators and enemy cities right next to my capital.

One of these days, I'll ask my friend if I can borrow Civ2, just to see what it's like.

	01-04-2002 21:53									#7
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When I play Civ, I'm continually searching for "the game of ultimate power." What I mean by this is a civilization that, by a combo of good strategy and good luck, becomes the biggest, strongest, smartest and most wonderous civ on the block... by a healthy margin. When I manage to pull this off, I bask in the glory of my creation.

Perhaps the best description of what I consider to be "ultimate power" is acheiving a CivII-esk tech lead in CivIII w/1.17f. As in fielding Tanks against Musketmen. I play on Monarch, so that doesn't happen often. But when it does, oh my, it's a blast. I am presently finishing off such a game, and am enjoying myself immensely. When you are strong enough to build 25 privateers and use them to destroy any and all ships the AI dares to build, you've got ultimate power.

Then there are the little things... the strokes of luck that make you or break you. Managing to beat the AI to a crucial city site, getting a great leader out of your very first elite victory... things like that.

-Arrian

	02-04-2002 00:29									#8
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While "ultimate power" is undoubtedly a good thing, I get just as much of a kick scratching to come out on top despite a bad starting location.

My favorite Civ3 moment may have been watching the Germans try to send 15 cavalry across my land to try to get at an isolated English city. Over and over again, I'd send them back home, and over and over again they would return. The Germans were my main rival, and eventually I couldn't resist gathering a cavalry force of my own, jumping them in my territory, and wiping out their offensive potential in one turn.

	02-04-2002 01:00									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian As in fielding Tanks against Musketmen. I play on Monarch, so that doesn't happen often.

I prefer much more difficult positions. Currently I'm attacking the Persians who are defending with pikemen. I don't have knights -- no horses. First I cut off his horses, so now it's catapults and sword. What a slugfest!

	02-04-2002 02:34									#10
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Zachriel,

Get yourself some longbowmen. They aren't bad in a pinch (such as having no horses).

By the way, I'm all for honest struggle, it's just nice to have everything go your way once and awhile. Like I said, "ultimate power" is a rare thing. Most of the time, things are more difficult for me. If it was always easy, then "ultimate power" would no longer be fun - it would be the norm, and therefore boring. That's when I move up a level

-Arrian

	02-04-2002 03:07									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Zachriel, Get yourself some longbowmen. They aren't bad in a pinch (such as having no horses). -Arrian

I used longbowmen in the GOTM5 over at Civfanatics. They worked quite well against a Russian hill town. I thought I would try catapults this time, and they worked great. The Persian immortals were redlined before they could do much damage to my invading forces. Plus, nearly all my sword are elite now.

It really is fun when everything falls into place, especially after a long period of animosity. More power to ya!

	02-04-2002 03:07									#12
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The Aztecs find great glory in hacking a mighty empire out of a crummy starting position.

In my current game, my Aztecs started out at what initially looked like a good starting position, with a settler standing on a river with a luxury just one tile away. I explored east-west first, and found two more nearby good city locations – including another luxury tile. I thought I had it made.

The only problem – when I explored north-south, I found I was in a smallish fertile valley, with mountains and then the coast just south and ten-tile thick jungle just to the north. Argh. But the Aztecs have hacked an empire out of the jungle. In the mid-1500s, our cavalry ranges over a full quarter of the pangea, cleansing the land of all who dare oppose us. Our scientists are unmatched (just barely, but unmatched…). Life is good in the Republic Azteckia.

My only gripe is that, after at least four dozen elite combats I still haven’t come up with a Great Leader. The Aztecs build everything the hard way this game…

	02-04-2002 05:11									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Perhaps the best description of what I consider to be "ultimate power" is acheiving a CivII-esk tech lead in CivIII w/1.17f. As in fielding Tanks against Musketmen. . . . Then there are the little things... the strokes of luck that make you or break you. Managing to beat the AI to a crucial city site, getting a great leader out of your very first elite victory... things like that. -Arrian

Sometimes, it takes a lot of work to get to the point where it looks easy (tanks v. muskets).

	02-04-2002 08:46									#14
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Probably the most enjoyable thing for me is conquering a vastly superior enemy civ. Even though it rarely happens since I'm usually at the top on Emperor, the few times that it does happen are the best. There is nothing quite as good as a come from behind victory. Especially if you were only inches away from defeat.