25-02-2001 23:35									#1
	satelites? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Has there been any discussion of satelites?

I came up with three ideas for satelites:
1) recon satelites-makes all of the AI's moves visable to the owner.
2) communications satelites-gives all units +50% mobility (through unit coordination and rapid responce times)
3)ASATs-satelite killers.

	26-02-2001 00:35									#2
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Vere good ideas, IMHO. But think about seeing all the AI moves in the later stages of the game.
The best part of your proposals is that they satisfy the space oriented players without aggravating "realists" like me and they don't require the blasphemous space layer.

	26-02-2001 20:17									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Men, it's filling of Admiral out here

Satellite main limits is... usually you end game centuries before they become available!
In SMAC, factions other than human almost never build satellite, don't mention proper use it.

If game AI can keep up the game for so long, I think satellite should:

quote: 1) recon satelites-makes all of the AI's moves visable to the owner

This is a bit too much. I remember SMACX (I played only SMAC) has satellite that help visibility around (and defense of) city that launched it.

That's better, but don't model real use of satellites for Intelligence purpose.
My proposal: when you launch a satellite you must set witch city it will surveil (you can point to yours -for defense purpose - or enemy cities as well). Surveillance will extend on a large surrounding area (e.g. 5x5 squares). You can see enemy movement (only military units or any kind) inside surveilled area. I know real satellites surveil around their orbit, not in a fixed area: mine proposal is only a simplified model.

If you like more, you can set not only city, but any square on map as center of surveilled area. A view filter can show as "shadowed" any area under satellite control.

quote: 2) communications satelites-gives all units +50% mobility (through unit coordination and rapid response times)

You are speaking more about the GPS net here, because simple communication aren't so enhanced: +50% movement is acceptable for ground units, a bit too much for sea and air units, IMHO. Adding a square can be enough.

quote: 3)ASATs-satelite killers

SMAC has same units, and it use them instead of CIV 2 SDI city facility against nuclear missiles, as against other satellites (hope I remember right: as I mentioned AI never used them against me ).

Interesting topic, rank collegue .

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

	27-02-2001 00:24									#4
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Actually, for recon satalites, you can have them always monitoring a set position, or you can have them appear in random positions each turn (satelites that orbit the earth contrary to the spin of the earth never appear in the same spot twice).

For the communication satelites: good idea.

ASATs: What goes up must come down .

	27-02-2001 08:43									#5
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It seems for satallites to work that the game would have to include a 3-d world. What I mean is that satallites would fight in the outer circle of a 3-d globe that does not interfer with the actual earth.

This would be a layer that is higher than planes which would be higher than ground units and naval vessels which would be higher than subs.

While this adds more complexity I think it takes away from the overall fun and topdown model that has served TBS for years. It also would seem to make the game overly complex and impossible to play.

However if a satallite proposal would function I would be inclined to at least listen to what one has to say. It seems like this is an interesting possibility to say the least.

	27-02-2001 20:40									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Tniem, no need for complex 3D layer just for satellite: SMAC manages 4 kind of satellite without any layer.

Build a satellite as any others unit.
This will automatically launch it (option: you need a Space Center facility in city to build & launch satellite).

Launching the satellite you are prompted with (chose from two design alternatives as in my previus post):

1) a list of cities from where you chose which surrounding you want to survey.
No random points surveyed. I understand how real satellite works (orbit and all) but I limit this for sake of simplicity.

OR

2) the normal game map that automatically set on a "satellite view" (SMAC already let you set if you want to see units or not) that show "shadowed" area already under surveillance from other satellite: click any square on map to set another 5x5 squares area under surveillance. Confirm and you have finished. Easy enough?
You now can view inside surveilled area, seeing terrain enhancement and units presence.
Any time you want to check your surveillance area, press the "satellite panel" as in SMAC and verify it on the filtered game map.

Random events or satellite killers can end your satellite activity. I think that satellite "expiration" (normal end of activity) is a bit too much to manage, just for playability reasons.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

	28-02-2001 01:25									#7
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Admiral-

O.K. makes sense now. Thanks.

I guess the last concern I have with the idea is satellite killers. What would these be missiles from cities? Or other satellites that could attack other satallites?

Other than that, you guys have sold me that satallites could be a viable addition to civ III.