02-04-2002 06:57									#1
	Back up cd? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I've been playing Civ III so hard that I'm worried I will wear out the CD, so I wanted to make a backup copy only for my personal use. However, I can't play from the backup. I'm all for copyright protection and all that, but I've always been under the impression that a personal backup is OK... Is the Civ III CD copy protected? If yes, how so? I thought that the technology was still experimental and only in music CD's.
So, do I have to buy a new game?

	02-04-2002 07:00									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

you're wrong. copying cds for yourself is not a constitional right, it was a legal right awarded in a case that was later overturned.

http://overclockers.com/tips907/

	02-04-2002 07:06									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

OK I got that straight. I promise I won't try it again. But I'm still curious, is the CD inherently uncopiable?

	02-04-2002 07:13									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Use CloneCD. You may have to tweak some setting, but it will work.

	02-04-2002 07:28									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You need a burner capable of copying SD2.

LiteOn 32x, and prolly the Plextor 40x can do it.

I made a copy and play from that. My original is tucked safely away to be used for installing or creating new play copies as needed.

Many Software license agreements allow for the creation of back up copies of media. The licence to us the product is usually the manual and or the certificates of authenticity (MS). Although this may vary in different jurisdictions.

	02-04-2002 08:01									#6
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX you're wrong. copying cds for yourself is not a constitional right, it was a legal right awarded in a case that was later overturned. http://overclockers.com/tips907/

Of course it's not a Constitutional right, but there are lots of laws which have nothing to do with the Constitution. I'm a law student specifically studying copyright and electronic media and I can tell you for a fact that you will not get in trouble for copying something you already own for your own personal use. Anyone who says this is illegal is full of ****. It's not that it's guaranteed by law, but the legal system is still trying to figure out how to deal with this stuff... which means you're ok right now. Copying and selling is illegal, and copying and distributing is sometimes illegal depending on the circumstances.

Regardless, feel free to copy your own CD for backup purposes as much as you want. Oh, and if anyone tells you it's not allowed because of Agreement you accept upon installing, they're full of **** too. Those 'Agreements' are almost never legally binding for reasons I won't get into.

	02-04-2002 08:15									#7
	agree Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I agree with TinCow on this one... Otherwise why do we even have VCRs??

Besides, UberKruX, caralampio didn't say n e thing about Constitutional Rights in the first place... why did u brought that up and say that he's "wrong"?? just kinda confused here...

spicytimothy

	02-04-2002 08:33									#8
	Re: agree Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by spicytimothy I agree with TinCow on this one... Otherwise why do we even have VCRs??

Actually, the main VCR case (well, Betamax actually... Sony Corp v Universal City Studios) was decided on a completely different matter. Basically, the Supreme Court held that you can't hold someone liable for contributory infringement for the creation of a device if that device has legitimate, non-infringing uses. This means that copying tapes that shouldn't be copied is still illegal, but VCRs are still allowed to exist because there ARE things which they can legally copy. Also, the alleged damages that Universal was claiming (time-shifting) the Court found to be non-existent.

The same thing is true of pretty much any copying device (photocopier, CD-Burner, DVD-Burner, etc.). It is legal to create and sell these devices because there are plenty of things that they can be legally used for. The makers of these devices are not legally liable if you personally abuse their products. If you copy tapes on your VCR and sell them without the permission of the (c) holder, then you are breaking the law.

When it comes down to it though, no individual ever has, nor ever will be sued for copying video tapes or CDs (unless they were part of a large pirating ring). The reality is, the copyright holders (read: Record companies and film studios) would lose money prosecuting individuals... that's why they go after people like Napster, Sony, and Phillips.

	02-04-2002 08:59									#9
	so... Get a bigger avatar today!

So u mean it's illegal for me to copy n e thing?? r u absolutely sure about this???
i mean like CDs, videos etc...

	02-04-2002 09:18									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If by playing Civ3 hard you mean snowboarding on the cd, or throwing it to your dog as a frisbee, then you may want to copy it. But if you are merely playing it like the rest of us, with a computer, then only copy it if you think you might lost the original; a cd-drive won't wear out a cd by reading from it.

Steele

	02-04-2002 09:22									#11
	Re: so... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by spicytimothy So u mean it's illegal for me to copy n e thing?? r u absolutely sure about this??? i mean like CDs, videos etc...

That's not what I said. Feel free to copy the CD for your own personal backup use, that's legal as of right now (and probably will remain that way forever). For anyone who cares to read more, here's an indepth explanation why:

You can copy anything you own the copyright to, anything you have authorization from the copyright holder to copy, or anything that falls within the Fair Use Defense for copyright infringement. There are four elements to consider to determine if a copying is acceptable under Fair Use. First, the purpose of the use. Educational uses and personal (non-commercial) uses are highly likely to be ok under this element. The more commerical the use, the more likely it is to be an infringing use... so basically don't sell the copies or distribute them to friends. Second, the amount of the work taken is important. The more you take of the work, the more likely you are to have violated copyright law... in addition you can violate it if you take a small portion, but that portion is 'the heart of the work.' In this case, you're copying everything, so this element works against you. Third is the effect of the copying on the market. If you're making the copyrighted works available free to everyone with internet access (Napster), you're going to effect the market for the product and you're going to be in trouble. If you only make a copy for yourself of something you already own, you are going to make absolutely no impact on the market (except possibly for that one extra CD you might buy if your original got destroyed). Thus, you're ok on this element. Finally, the nature of the work is important. The nature of the work depends on things like how factual it is, whether it is published, how creative it is, etc. I won't go into it, but this element is against you.

So basically, you've got 2 elements for you and two against you. You've taken the entire part of a protected work, but you're using it for a judicially acceptable purpose and you have no effect on the market. You'd be hard pressed to find a court that would hold you liable for copyright infringement under those circumstances so copy away.

	02-04-2002 13:06									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Just get the no-cd patch on www.gamecopyworld.com. You can play without your original cd in your drive.

	02-04-2002 13:07									#13
	Put an end to popups!

P.S. make sure you get the right version.

	02-04-2002 13:21									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

CDs never get damaged under what should be normal use? False. I see it all the time. Ever seen a CD drive after a CD has exploded in it?

TinCow. Prolly completely correct. In his jurisdiction. But face it, no company or law enforcement agency is ever going to come hunting down individuals playing games. Well, maybe if you live in Iraq or North Korea. Other than that. Pfff.

As a matter of fact, I have had several conversations with officers of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police on the topic of piracy and illegal copies of software. Man. They don't seem to care that some small time dealers are selling pirated copies of Windows, let alone go banging on the door of Joe User. I can just about remember what one of them said. Close to quote: *We're not going to go knocking on people's doors to ask what software they have in thier basement.*

	02-04-2002 18:13									#15
	Tired of ads?

A friend of mine got in big trouble trying to copy MechWarrior4, apparently, he tried to download software to crack the copyprotection bulit on the CD. The site the software was on was some sort of "sting" operation. I guess they his IP address, and soon enough they game into his room with a search warrant.

Scary stuff.



I'm sure, for a small fee, Firaxis will replace a bad CD, so long as you can prove you own it. LucasArts as a warranty policy like that, for about $5, and the original CD that is defected, they'll replace it in the mail.

	02-04-2002 18:26									#16
	Support Apolyton

quote: I've been playing Civ III so hard that I'm worried I will wear out the CD

LOL

	03-04-2002 01:45									#17
	Tired of ads?

Yes, that is why Microsoft wants everyone to register with them when installing and using Windows XP, people just can not be trusted (not to copy) and sell the game (usually foreigners ?) to steal copyrighted material.

If there is a way, then it still will be done, they feel they are getting screwed - especially Microsoft - but then I did not buy Windows XP.

My Civ II CD's still work, and that was played for years.

I think it will last until Civ4 comes out, if it ever does, after some people decided that they were better creators of a game than the game designers.

Perhaps, CD will not even work in the future, some new technology will be used.

Keep checking!


I have music CD's 20 years old, they still work also.

	03-04-2002 03:19									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The funny thing is, Microsoft's XP protection doesn't even work. I'm running XP off a burned ISO image with someone else's serial number and it works fine.

	03-04-2002 04:27									#19
	Put an end to popups!

tincow---- have any of us with XP paid for it? lol