02-04-2002 08:16									#1
	Asterisks Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

By now I guess everyone knows that any time you manage to get two of the same base improvements in the same base, the improvement in question will have an asterisk beside it.

If one improvement was built rather than being acquired through an inherent faction bonus or SP, you can sell it off without losing the second one. In such a case it stands to reason that you would pay maintenance on one of them prior to selling it off. But I have never double checked to make sure.

If both were as a result of faction bonuses and SPs then you will not gain any benefit from your asterisk. Examples would be the Hive building or 'acquiring' the CDF, or the Pirates getting the MCC.

It seems to me that a double asterisk would be possible. Take the example where a base built a perimeter defense and later the same faction constructed the CDF elsewhere. Suppose that the first perimeter defense was not immediately sold off. If the Hive took over the base, then there would be three perimeter defenses due to the Hive's faction bonus.

An idle question perhaps, but has anyone seen this? If it does happen I figure it would be almost as rare as the near mythical Mark III Ogre's appearance.

	02-04-2002 14:35									#2
	Tired of ads?

I don't think it works like that. A faction doesn't get it's free facilities if it acquires a base off someone else.

	02-04-2002 18:30									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

GT,

But you could envision say Pirates capturing a sea base with a naval yard in it, later on discovering Doctrine Initiative and then building MCC for naval vessel extra two moves.

Now for Yang you are correct since his perimter defense is free with a new base founded it wouldn't apply. OTOH, unless my memeoryis foggy there have been a number of times I've seen that Zak has captured a base and Bingo he has his free node.

Og

	02-04-2002 22:58									#4
	Put an end to popups!

General, my experience has been mixed. I certainly have gotten a free perim defense when taking over an enemy base while playing Yang. At the other extreme I have had my 'improvement in every base' SP not kick in at a base. I have also had an 'improvement in every base' SP kick in at a pactmate's base despite the pactmate not having the improvement.

The last situation makes it possible to heal air units completely in one turn while in a pactmate's base with no Aerospace complex if you have the CBA.

	03-04-2002 02:58									#5
	Put an end to popups!

This is what I saw once when playing as Hive:
I captured enemy base. It got a new perimter defense.
BUT, one of my existing bases, deep inside my empire, had lost it's perimeter defense! (it was there the previous turn!)

	03-04-2002 03:49									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Very odd. I've never seen it to be that inconsistent before. Will have mto check out RedFred's save game.

	03-04-2002 17:56									#7
	Put an end to popups!

I've seen the irregularities in my experience, too. For example, I'm Miriam with the Citizens' Defense force, and I take over a University base. The University network node vanishes, and a perimeter defense doesn't appear. Call it a bug. However, that kind of thing is rare. Usually you see what you expect to happen. Never seen a double asterisk, BTW.

-rjb

	04-04-2002 05:59									#8
	Remove this text

Well RedFred, in your save game I did find a couple of Gaian bases with asterisks. If this is what you meant, it is indeed very strange. OTOH the only faction with a free facility that I've played very much are the Usurpers, and as they are aliens maybe that has something to do with it.

	06-04-2002 00:19									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Okay, I have done some more testing.

I believe that the double asterisk never crops up. If my Yang game is any indication, if you have both Yang and the CDF and you capture a city with a perim defence you will never go beyond one asterisk. Furthermore, in such a case you will never be able to sell your extra one or two perim defenses off.

And if you capture a base with no perim defense (but with Yang and CDF) it seems to be fairly random as to if you will get an asterisked perimeter defense.

	07-04-2002 18:39									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: BUT, one of my existing bases, deep inside my empire, had lost it's perimeter defense! (it was there the previous turn!)

I think this once happened for me too when playing Hive...and it just doesn't make any sense. All in all, the whole concept seems absurdly implented judging by these replies.

	08-04-2002 02:16									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It may be a well-documented bug, but I've seen the opposite of what Blake described above. Suppose I capture a Hive base, I'll get the perim defense there as usual, and later notice a free one has popped up at another base somewhere else in my empire. I've seen the same thing after capturing a Uni base - a network node will show up in another base where I know I shouldn't have one.

	08-04-2002 03:24									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Another interesting instalment of the Hive/perim defense saga - playing an IP game earlier, as the PKs. I knocked the Hive base's perimeter defense out with a probe, captured the base...and the perimeter reappeared. Didn't have the CDF either.

	08-04-2002 20:44									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: ...and the perimeter reappeared

This concept is a mess!