03-04-2002 08:31									#1
	Submarine flag? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Im trying to create an undercover UU.... basically speacial forces unit.

Now, i don't want this unit visible on screen untill it attacks.

Would the Submarine flag be the right choice? or, for some strange reason, would it be the "stealth" flag?

would i be correct in assuming the submarine flag does not apply solely to naval units, but any unit that i want to be hidden?

and, could i stretch to put "see submarine" flags to units i want to be able to detetc these speacial ground submarine forces?

	04-04-2002 01:57									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

the "Submarine" flag will make the unit invisible the enemy unless he has a unit near it with the "Can see submarines" flag.

it is not limited to sea units either. you can use it for land and air too.

"stealth" makes the unit less likely to be intercepted during air missions.

	04-04-2002 04:16									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The units created with the submarine flag are still very prone to detection (much more than we would like for a SF unit). It may have to do with the constant AI unit movement that bumps into the subs (and therefore identifies their presence). There are a number of threads discussing these units. The last (I think) dealt with colourless units. You could search for it using that term.

	04-04-2002 05:26									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

yea, if the AI bumps into it, it will be detected.

	04-04-2002 09:33									#5
	Support Apolyton

Yeah the AI seems to see the "submarine" units more than we'd like. One thing I did that helped with this was to make most units have the "wheeled" flag. My thinking is that your horse units shouldn't travel through jungle or mountain and that your average foot units (archers spearmen etc) aren't tough enough to be crawling through the jungle. Most of the elite units like Legionaries and Samurai etc I allow to travel through mountain and jungle. My point is...my SF units keep to the mountain and jungle terrain and stay undetected better b/c most of my units don't pathfind thru these terrains. They might get found out by one of the elite units. I like this setup also b/c it makes the terrain more of a strategic element.

One problem...the AI cheats. I've seen several "wheeled" units moving thru mountain/jungle, usually escorting settlers but even escorting other military units that do not have the "wheeled" flag. I hate that cheat more than any other.

In one of the more fun games I've had, I played the French and all of a sudden all of my workers started turning into Aztec workers! I had forgotten that I gave Jag Warriors the "submarine" flag. They had infiltrated my entire nation unseen and once in position they declared war and started stealing my workers and pillaging my improvements. I didn't know what to do until I remembered that I gave Scouts the ability to see submarines. I had to start building Scouts by the droves, placing one in every city and placing them around my borders as sentries so I could see the sneaky Jag Warriors and kill them. It was quite fun.

Colorless units are a blast too.

	04-04-2002 17:15									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

What can cause "submarines" to be detected? Obviously "detect submarines" and actually entering the square. In Civ2 (or was it SMAC, my memory is failing), cities could see subs (or am I mis-remembering?). Can cities see "Submarines" in Civ3?

	04-04-2002 22:30									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Someone (maybe at Civfanatics, maybe here, can't remember) thought that when an AI unit wants to go from Point A to Point B, the "find best path" function detects the presence of these submarine units. Seems to make sense since as you get closer to AI cities the AI seems to know exactly where your hidden units are. Quite a contrast from CTP series where the AI unit had to literally try to occupy your square before it "saw" you. It's pretty much speculation I guess. My cities definitely cannot see hidden units. Can't speak for the AI tho...

	23-04-2002 02:32									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Well- its not that specops units are invisible- they should get detected on routine inspections/patrols... yes the AI is problematic in this sense- in CTP one could dive off into deeper waters with subs- but anyhow we U were talking about land units...

How bout S.E.A.L.s comming ashore (almost) invisible

	24-04-2002 00:34									#9
	Suffering from ads?

Are you sure that the AI wasn't just going along a jungle road, or did you make workers wheeled to? Mountains and jungle with roads built over them can be traversed by wheeled units just fine.

	24-04-2002 02:43									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

"Speacial?" (hint hint)

Actually, some people at CivFanatics found out that the Stealth flag makes units invisible, and I think they found that they would be seen, however, if an enemy unit moved next to it.

	24-04-2002 12:16									#11
	Re: Submarine flag? Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Ninot Im trying to create an undercover UU.... basically speacial forces unit. Now, i don't want this unit visible on screen untill it attacks. Would the Submarine flag be the right choice? or, for some strange reason, would it be the "stealth" flag? would i be correct in assuming the submarine flag does not apply solely to naval units, but any unit that i want to be hidden? and, could i stretch to put "see submarine" flags to units i want to be able to detect these speacial ground submarine forces?

The new patch has replaced the "Submarine" flag with an "Invisible" flag, and also changed the opposite attribute to "See Invisible". It works exactly the same as before, except the name no longer implies just a sea unit. It's always had an effect if used on land units as well. Stealth as I understand it only works on air units.