04-04-2002 21:21									#1
	Democracy Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just carouse if this is something on my end, something normal in the game or else.
I was playing last night and accomplished to get democracy. I went into a revolution and then changed into democracy. I have about five cities that are in Civil disorder and about 20 cities in all with the rest happy. Every turn though I get the popup message box that says I have changed to democracy. This happened so far about 6 times, is this a bug or something else going on?

Thanks,

	04-04-2002 21:32									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

It seems to be a bug.

Standard reply: what version are you using?

	04-04-2002 21:44									#3
	Got spare money?

Could not tell you right now, have to wait until I get home. I just baught it on sunday and of course its civ2. I did buy it new, was not used or anything so I guess the latest but that may not be true.

	04-04-2002 22:27									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

oohh... the very early versions are supposed to be full of bugs

well, download the 2.42 patch from this site and it should be fixed

but then I've never heard of such an error before... and many people played Civ2 without installing any sort of patch

	05-04-2002 00:12									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have not been playing the game very long so it could be some kind of scenario. Would the collapse of some of the cities cause it? I had about two collapse and 5 or 6 in civil disorder and the rest ok. Would this have anything to do with it? The game ran fine until I switched to democracy. I have started another world just to see if I can reiterate it in another way.

	05-04-2002 00:46									#6
	Remove this text

Democracy is unique as a form of government in two ways - one good - you cannot be bribed - one bad - if a city falls into disorder and is not immediately fixed you drop into anarchy and have to wait until the next oedo year before you are allowed to change government back to whatever you wish. It sounds to me as if you have dropped out of Demo because of the city disorder, but being new to the game are convinced you are still there ...
Try Ctrl-T which brings up the 'Advisors' - always good for a laugh, but quite spectacular in Anarchy ...

	05-04-2002 00:58									#7
	Suffering from ads?

Ok, so when a city collapses and goes into anarchy does that mean my entire civ has gone into anarchy or just that one city? Because if that is the case that would make sense as soon as I bring the city back up to par and make them happy I guess they reform the government and I get the message?

	05-04-2002 01:55									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yup, one city goes down the drain, the whole system collapses.

It's like an anarchists dream.

Anyway, you then get democracy again and if a city goes into disorder...BOOM! And so forth...

Since democracy is the money-maker (well, besides fundi), create some entertainers and bring those military boys home!

	05-04-2002 02:04									#9
	Put an end to popups!

Sounds like a good idea, All the barbarians have calmed down for now and are no where to be found. The Egyptians and the chinese are off in lala land fighting each other and aquriing new things from each other. I need to restore civil order to all the towns anyway. Actually that would be the best way to tell now that I think about it. If I resoter civil order in all my cities and everyone is happy and I still get the message then I will know that something is wrong, if it goes away then the questions is still answered!
Thanks for all the post!

	05-04-2002 03:24									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

unix
I try to make it simple:
1) You are in Democracy.
2) One or many cities fall into civil disorder = nothing worse happens if you react at once (you can check by consulting the attitude advisor = no red city left).
3) If ONE city stays ONE turn in civil disorder, then your government collapses and you will remain in anarchy until the next oedo year.

	05-04-2002 04:39									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Gotchya!
Thanks Alot!

	05-04-2002 06:55									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think I misunderstood your problem.

	05-04-2002 11:59									#13
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Unix

AFAIK you cannot get v2.42 'out of the box' - once you are in the game select the Game | Game Options menu - this will give a pop-up that has the game version as its title. Let us know what it says ... and good luck with your game

	05-04-2002 13:49									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits AFAIK you cannot get v2.42 'out of the box'

almost correct(in my case).
If your version is lower then 2.42 you should first check the cd itself,It's possible the patch to 2.42 is on it...if not you will surrely find it here(eg in GL)

Shade

	05-04-2002 23:30									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok will do,

	06-04-2002 06:57									#16
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette 3) If ONE city stays ONE turn in civil disorder, then your government collapses and you will remain in anarchy until the next oedo year.

Are you sure it isn't 2? (ie. at least 2 cities for one turn or 1 city for 2 turns)

	06-04-2002 14:45									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think we are all agreeing - but counting differently.

AFAIK - if you start a turn with a city in dispute and the following turn that city is still in dispute - your government falls.

I have never encountered any governmental collapses involving more than one city - but avoiding the condition above.

	16-04-2002 05:01									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

in Democracy as long as the same citie(s) do not remain in revolt for more than one turn you are ok....rome is in revolt, you fix it...start next turn and veii is in revolt....no govt collapse.....however you may wish to check your level of innebriation (spelling?) and make a decision as to whether too much red wine and civ mix?

Ask a Scouse or Two about that one

	16-04-2002 09:46									#19
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Let me see if this explanation makes things worse

There are two ways to get a city into disorder.

The first way involves a city which you already had. Something happens (government change, units overseas, improvement sold or destroyed, wonder expires, etc) which makes the unhappies outnumber the happies. At the start of the turn when this happens, the pop up window appears saying 'Civil Disorder!'. In a democracy, you'd better do something right then, or later in that turn before you hit 'end turn'. Otherwise, the 'civil disorder' message will appear next turn as well, and it's too late to do anything, kaboom, your empire revolts and if you're like me, you have to sit through about 70 disorder messages that drive you crazy.

Now, you might have a city that was happy at the start of your turn, but you did something during the turn (moved a unit, sold an improvement, etc) that made the unhappies outnumber the happies. Doesn't matter. That turn the city counts as happy, and you get the 'civil disorder' message the next turn. And if it's still in disorder the turn after that, you get a government collapse.

The other way to cause a city to go into disorder is to bribe or capture it. These cities are always (I think) in disorder when you capture them - i.e. they show on the city menu as being in disorder. Doesn't matter how many red versus blue faces you have, it's still in disorder. And it doesn't seem to matter whether the city was in disorder before you captured it.

If the blues outnumber or equal the reds, you don't have to do anything.

If they don't (or something happens later in the turn that makes the reds outnumber the blues, like moving a unit out of the city, and you don't address the situation before the turn ends), then next turn you'll get the 'Civil Disorder' message in that city. Even though you never saw that message before, kaboom, your empire revolts. This is clearly different from the first situation, when you need 2 consecutive 'Civil Disorder' messages for the government to collapse.

Incidentally... This always happens to me no matter how ******** careful I am!!

In other words, it can happen by accident very easily. But in a sense, that city hasn't been in disorder for 2 full turns, so I consider it a rotten AI trick.

I love Fundamentalism

STYOM

	16-04-2002 14:58									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man I love Fundamentalism

Yeah

SG[1]

	16-04-2002 19:55									#21
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Me, I love democracy
We love the president's day all through the empire

	16-04-2002 20:40									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes, JB - but there comes a time (food/infrastructure) when you have to turn it off - as it does no more good. Those light blue Fundamentalists just carry on pouring their tithes into the Imperial coffers

SG[1]