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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
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Well, my first game in CtP1 was so long ago I can't remember (what is it now? 4-5 years?), so no I have no recollections of any kind about not understanding the PW system or anything.
For CtP2, my first game was an early alpha, which was truly a mess (but a fun mess at that  ). I had read the design docs and descriptions by other people who got the game before me (Harlan, skorpion59, Mr Ogre, Dave White, et al), so I roughly understood the rules and worked out the details pretty easily on the fly, I didn't have a real manual (although the manual on the CD for Dark Reign 2 was mildly interesting  ).
Anyway, if you think out-of-the-box CtP1/2/Civ3 are buggy, you haven't seen those alphas - you *really* don't want to know (and even if you do I'm probably not allowed to tell  ). It crashed all the time, the graphics looked horrible (imagine a mix between CtP1, CtP2 and programmer art  ) and a coracle in a tornado is more balanced than that alpha was I don't even remember how the game went, I think I played the Dutch on Deity (yes, it was still called Deity then) and, contrary to most testers until then, played all the way into the modern era to eventually conquer 2/3 of the globe (diplomacy victory didn't work yet ) and build up a gold reserve of countless milions (trade was waaayyy too powerful) before the game crashed beyond fixing.
Ah, those were the days
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TheArsenal
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Sunny Southern California
Mar 2002
time: 21:18
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Well, my experience is still relatively fresh. I was an avid boardgamer, even regularly played the very basic ones, like Risk. I knew very little about PC games ... video games in general really ... and assumed they were all basically Laura Croft. Wasn't interested.
Then a friend bought Civ:CtP for me as a gift about half a year ago. I loaded and played out of courtesy. It was a revelation. I had no idea such games existed. So I played myself to the brink of exhaustion, but began to notice small things about it that bugged me. The way it crashed when I would bombard cities with a battleship. Or how I would have to put every unit to sleep right after I moved it to make sure it didn't wander off in a very stupid direction, or worse, I didn't accidentally kill another civs unit I've been cautiously avoiding war with for centuries. Or the haphazard teleportation of units respecting trespass agreements.
So I went on-line to find information on patches or tips, to cure these problems and found there was CtP2. Bought it at Best Buy for 20 bucks. Around the same time two things happened, I found this site, downloaded a couple of mods and got a glimpse of this game's vast potential (although I needed help just downloading, so that lets you know that I am far from fully exploiting the game's vast potential) and began giving copies of Ctp2 away as gifts the way it was given to me (CtP2 is not easy to find any more, BTW). And now, I have seriously *hooked* four other people into "The Game" (as it is simply known, as if there is no other).
So, I am at the point where some of you were eons ago. New to the genre, and surrounded by buds who are so fired up about this game they don't know what to do. And none of them have even downloaded a single mod yet. Just wait.
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TheArsenal
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Sunny Southern California
Mar 2002
time: 21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Locutus
Great strategy to give those games away  Be sure to point those buds to Apolyton, we can always use some extra crowd (and they will enjoy the mods, I'm sure)  |
Oh, I'll definitely do that. Apolyton is an invaluable resource. But that said, I feel that (with rare exceptions like me) that this is more of a modders forum than a player's. I get the feeling a lot of people are *testing* the mods, but no one is *playing* them. Could be wrong. But I think because this game has been out so long, on these boards all basic game play discussion (like which units to use in an attacking stack in each era, which is the kind of things my friends and I talk about) has been replaced by discussion of which text file to open or which mod to use. Don't get me wrong, this forum's great, I have two awesome mods (MedMod and Apolyton Pack) and Ships of the Line that bombard land again (hopefully, I haven't tested them yet) because of this place. But for the average game player, leagues behind you guys, I think it's a bit intimidating. But, I'll let them decide for themselves.
(If I was off topic, apologies. New guy excuse).
Last edited by TheArsenal on 05-04-2002 at 04:53
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
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quote:
Originally posted by TheArsenal
I get the feeling a lot of people are *testing* the mods, but no one is *playing* them. Could be wrong. But I think because this game has been out so long, on these boards all basic game play discussion (like which units to use in an attacking stack in each era, which is the kind of things my friends and I talk about) has been replaced by discussion of which text file to open or which mod to use. |
That's *exactly* what we need the extra crowd for (and why I'm starting things like succession games, numerous polls and GotM features). We have (and always had) way too little of such discussion and, as you said yourself, only discussing about mods and such intimidates new players. I *know* that a lot of people are playing this game and that many of them at least occassionally read this forum, but most hardly ever post - a sharp contrast with the Civ3 forums. These strategy and other non-modding related discussions are interesting for the veterans as well but, aside from Oerdin, noone ever seems to start any 
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
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Crossposted with Dale (edit: twice   ): exactly, I get tons of emails/ICQs/PMs/etc as well from all sorts of people, players and modmakers, and read in other forums about Civ3/SMAC/Civ2 players who say they still play or used to play CtP2 as well but who I've never seen in these CtP2 forums.
And yes, ideas, questions, remarks, strategies, etc are all very much welcomed, both to evaluate and use for the mods and just because it's nice to talk about this game which we all like so much...
quote:
Originally posted by TheArsenal
(If I was off topic, apologies. New guy excuse). |
Don't worry, this sort of semi-off topic discussion is exactly what we need more, as I described above.
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Eagle
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Singapore
Apr 2002
time: 13:18
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Ey,
Well, can confirm that there are guys out there who are not interested in modding the game, who only want to play it. I am one of them.
Find it incredible how you guys can change the game soo much with just a couple of text files. 
About my first ctp2 experience. Was about the same as Oerdin's. I don't read manuals until 'after' I have played the game for a week or so. Also, I bought CTP2 without manual, downloaded it afterwards from the site.
Had the same experience with the roads and PW. Couldn't figure out why the computer was able to build roads and farms etc and I couldn't. Hadn't noticed yet there was a tile tab at the bottom of my screen ...
But hey, I am running in 1400x1050, so the nav bar at the bottom right is quite small.
I wouldn't mind starting threads about strategy or something, but most of the guys here I think are sooooo prof, that they don't need any discussion about what unit to use in which situation, or they look down on newbie questions like I am asking.
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
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I dunno, how smart can you be if...
quote:
Customer: "I'm having trouble installing Microsoft Word."
Tech Support: "Tell me what you've done."
Customer: "I typed 'A:SETUP'."
Tech Support: "Ma'am, remove the disk and tell me what it says."
Customer: "It says '[PC manufacturer] Restore and Recovery disk'."
Tech Support: "Insert the MS Word setup disk."
Customer: "What?"
Tech Support: "Did you buy MS word?"
Customer "No..." |
or:
quote:
I've bought a stolen CDD3610 which didn't come with any software or cables. Could you please send that to me? I presume I do have the full 12 months warranty? |
My all-time favourite, not necessarily a sign of stupidity but still pretty darn funny:
quote:
I'm working as a tech support person at a Finnish newspaper printing and publication house, and we have several reporters that submit their files via a dial-in modem line directly to our layout system.
Once one of the reporters wanted to call the tech support because the modem wasn't answering his calls, but the call was answered by a computer illiterate.
Reporter: "It seems that...eh, modem's out again."
Computer Illiterate: "Oh, just a minute. I'll go look for him."
He proceeded to page the whole company through the central P.A. system.
Computer Illiterate: "Mr. Modem, Mr. Modem, there's a call for you."
My co-worker intercepts, trying hard to keep a straight face.
Co-Worker: "Mr. Modem is on vacation. He won't be back till August."
The computer illiterate returns to the phone and tells the reporter that our modem is on vacation till August. |
(Source)
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Martin Gühmann
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Berlin, Germany
Mar 2001
time: 06:18
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It's long ago when I played my first CTP1 game, I remember that I had also to figure out how you place tile improvements, but I think I solved this problem pritty fast. I already knew from a preview that it contained something different that the settler type system, and this was a reason for me to buy CTP1, since I had my experience with more than 200 settlers in Civ2, therefore I allready knew the benefits of PW. I started to play on beginner level as I did it in Civ2. I don't know if I build every wonder on my own but in the end I had them all.
Of course I made it easy for me in Civ2 I played on a costumized would map just grassland and plains for good tiles, as it was a pain to terraform everything. I exploiting the hut thing that if you save before a hut and visit it after a reload you get something different. So my empire grew rapidly, I bought enemy cities, and than when the AIs started to gang up on me another Civ that wasn't a member of this alliance asked me to declare war on one of these alliance members, I happily agreed as that was the way to declare war on another Civ without changing the government and loosing the benefits of no coruption and city bribery immunity. Than I bought a city from all these alliance members, my parliament forced me to make peace or at least a cease fire. So just one turn of war and no AI turn of war. But now the best thing comes. In the negotiation with these alliance members they asked me to declare war on the civ that asked me to declare war before, of course I happily accepted and bought cities again, until no city was left to bought just one little opponent, just to get the points for the score.
Than I build up all my empire or better I already started to build up my empire while the AI civs were still there, I never prepared me for war as I never had to conquer a city by force of course except the capitals. I ended with more than 200 cities and every city had just one unit for defence that was also enough, Leonardo's Work Shop upgraded them until the modern age. I had also to manage more than 200 settlers every turn and I started to rush buy everything in my cities that was the reason why I had to disable all these boring popup messages and go in the cities over the city manager to add the next building and rush buy it, of course I first rush bought barracks and switched than over to another building so save some gold.
Afterwards I build every building I build fright units for trade, by the way it was a pain to move them all to their goal cities at first I had to find a city a huge problem if you have to look it up in huge city list just to get to know to which city I had to send the fright unit, for highest income of course to the other end of the world of course I had to move the unid by hand as the go to order never worked the unit went from the road also the alternative was so short, the consequence was that I covered the whole world with railroads, as I played on an customized world map I ended up to play on one continent so the railroad around the world was possible. But don't think it was easy to use the go to order and tell the unit that it should go one sqare right. No it went in the opposite direction as this stupid go to order thought I play on a flat map without east/west scrolling.
So finnally I needed one and a half hour to do one turn (moving, all my fright units, settlers and some defence units). But that wasn't the most annoying thing, the in game city administration was a pain it took half an hour to cycle through all of my cities on my old 486er also I turned of these stupid popup messages(who wants to close more than 200 celebrating something or building build messages every turn). My K6 233Mhz just needed 4 minutes for this stuff half an hour or 4 minutes of doing nothing you can just stare on the screen and wait you can't save in this period just sit there. But nevertheless I played and founded cities and as I wanted to found a city again I got a pop up message that told me: Too many cities. What no more cities, I thought there wasn't a city limit in the game also I already went beyond other limits in this game like money limited my income per turn was more than 30000 gold per turn what happend everything above the magical 32000 disapeared, I was number one on the power graph the line just wnt up and than suddenly down, I had a negative total population and than this no more cities, that was the end of the fun and of Civ2. Maybe there is a patch that fixed some of these limits but I didn't had internet at this time so I had to play the game out of the box. But that wasn't necessary as the end of fun of founding cities meant the end of Civ2.
So CTP1 solved all of my problems:
PW no more settlers than I needed to found all of my cities.
Build Queue no need to visit a city if you already know the build sequence (really easy if you founded more than 100 cities in the game). BTW you can save your build sequence in CTP1 and CTP2.
CTP1/2 message system no need for a mass of popup messages every turn, I don't know why they added with the first patch of CTP1 these this turn we finished this item next turn our city will build this item. The only interesting messages are if the build queue is empty, if a city is rioting a foreign spy stole an advance or did something different.
Good Terraforming Sytem you can pretty fast convert your land to grassland so no need for a costumized map, although I don't use it in CTP2 anymore as I figured out with the population cap of 60 more farms won't help, so I can build a huge varity of terrain improvements and the maps looks also good at the end of one game.
Undersea Colonies and Undersea Tunnels removes also the need for a costumized map you can link your empire in the end of the game.
No Unlimited Move for Railroads/Maglevs so you can't fly around the would in one turn for tousand times.
Fixed Goody Huts you can't save before and reload and hope that you will get some time a city.
No more Caravans and Fright Units to move around the wourld just use the trade manager and establish a trade route between two cities.
Better Progam Routines for City Management no need anymore to wait betwenn turn so long and I had to manage more than 350 cities in CTP1 a number that never allowed Civ2 and no need more such a high number in CTP2 as your cities fill up more space. Also this hight number of cities bruoght my computer to the limits (K6 233Mhz and 64bit ram), CTP1 ran very slow, but not a pain as Civ2 as it brought me to my limit to play a game.
So all in all my first impression of CTP1 was a major improve in comparision of Civ2, it was exciting, at this time I still haven't internet access, and I never realized how bad or how good CTP1's AI was as I wanted only to build up a huge empire a good AI would be just disturbing. The only problem was that I had to delete evrytime when I wanted to play a late game that I had to delete the userprofile.txt and the and another file concerning the user defined shortcuts, otherwise the game crashed, fortunatly the hack patch solved this problem.
I figured out how to add city styles but without internet no chance to add them, as I got internet I downloaded Harlan's ModPack for CTP1 that included new city styles I just installed the parts that didn't affected my language version, and I modded the colors00.txt, that was the first thing that I modified on CTP2, not to say that I could win my first CTP2 game but I drove into modding as I thuoght CTP2 had to less city styles so I made Citymod in January 2001 and send it to OmniGod, I had some problems with this CTP2 add a file form, finally I figured out that this form is broken and it still doesn't work. I didn't played so much as I already drove into modding and than I registered in March 2001 here on Apolyton to participiate in the sollution of the sea city sprite bug, so far I think it can't be fixed with changing the source code of the ctp2.exe. I although thought some other stuff was missing from CTP1 every tile improvement had its own construction graphics 3 for most of the tile imps they were missing. I figured out that the stuff was there and a problem that could be partly fixed in the textfiles so every tile imp has now one contruction graphic, also a sound was missing when you put a tile imp on the map.
So my first impression of CTP2 was that there was something missing. At the beginnig I never watched on the AI as I wanted to build up an huge empire, I stayed here as I wanted to make CityMod2 with some graphics by me not only by Harlan. Afterwards I was finished with CityMod2 I wanted to bring it into the CTP2 Apolyton DataBase but OmniGod was gone and Marcos just added ModSwapper and Apolyton Pack, that is the reason why CityMod2 was added after Apolyton Pack, actual CityMod2 was sopposed to be added before Apolyton Pack as CityMod2 is a part of Apolyton Pack. Than I wanted to have more Goods in the game an I realized that a better AI would be more fun that can kill you and of course that can kill other AIs, so I played with the AI files and started with adding slic code like the commerce tile imp code.
So to sum it up and answer your question, my first impression of CTP2 was that something was missing so I waited for the final patch and than Actvision dropped support and left it to the fans to fix it. From the start I thought CTP2 was never hopeless it has to much to offer for example the moddability that allows us to fix the game.
-Martin
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Hermann the Lombard
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Hoboken, NJ, USA
Jun 1999
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Dale
The most important thing us oldies should (and do from what I've seen on these forums) remember is that "We were newbies once too."
Any question is not a stupid question. |
Dale,
On this forum I have never felt any disrespect from the oldtimers for the newbies, and I would guess that the truly arrogant players left this forum long ago. So my thanks to you, Wouter, Ben, Wes, Hex, Martin, Peter, et al.
-- Ed (Hermann)
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Hermann the Lombard
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Hoboken, NJ, USA
Jun 1999
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by TheArsenal
But that said, I feel that (with rare exceptions like me) that this is more of a modders forum than a player's. I get the feeling a lot of people are *testing* the mods, but no one is *playing* them. Could be wrong. But I think because this game has been out so long, on these boards all basic game play discussion (like which units to use in an attacking stack in each era, which is the kind of things my friends and I talk about) has been replaced by discussion of which text file to open or which mod to use. But for the average game player, leagues behind you guys, I think it's a bit intimidating. |
Good point, but it's up to us--the players--to start and continue strategy and "how to play" threads. I'm happy to do so. Besides, if we make some nice outrageous statements you just know *somebody* will take the bait and respond. 
So get your buddies in here, and let us know what's puzzling, enraging, interesting, and so forth!
There's no such thing as a stupid question, except the one that didn't get asked. Well, there *are* some stupid IT tech support questions, but hey, I was kinda pleased the first time I got to tell someone: "It works better if you plug it in." 
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913
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HongKong, China
Apr 2002
time: 13:18
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Just played it for the first time last night in an internet house in Shanghai. I chose the easiest difficulty level and default settings and of the Chinese race. Played till 1000BC and have conqued half of the world. Maybe next time I should choose a tougher difficulty level ... haha...
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centrifuge
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I've played almost every civ and civ-type game since sid's original Civilization, I'm completely addicted to the genre. I must admit, however, that I never felt the desire to buy CTP2. I think the reason being that CTP1 was very slow on my old machine, and lacked any significant scenarios. So anyway, after playing Civ3 for a couple of months, I found a cheap copy of CTP2 at the store...I'm now officially hooked!!! I've downloaded all the mods that I could find at this site, and am loving this game. My only regret is that I didn't start sooner. Many people must be in my same shoes(ie reluctant to buy CTP2) because I do notice a significant lack of support for it. I will not stop playing Civ3, (I love the diplomacy), but for now CTP2 is my game. I hope that more people come to there senses the way that I have.
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04-04-2002 23:16
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