05-04-2002 04:27									#1
	Do you think consumers would benefit if Firaxis and Activision collaborated on Civ4? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Both Civilization III and Call To Power II have their pros and cons. But what if Firaxis and Activision collaborated their ideas and developed a Civilization IV game that has elements from both of these two previous games. And even added a little bit more of their own magic to bring the game to life! What then? Do you think consumers would benefit? Do you think they could really make "the greatest game of all time?"

Exercise your right to vote!

Last edited by Mr. Nice Guy on 05-04-2002 at 08:17

	05-04-2002 04:44									#2
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I thought they collaborated for civ3?

	05-04-2002 04:49									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I thought they collaborated for civ3?

Uh, nooooooooooooo.

	05-04-2002 05:33									#4
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It'd probably be good. Mabye not great, but good at the least.

	05-04-2002 05:41									#5
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So what features do you think would combine the best of both games?

From CTP2:
* Terrain variety - desert mountains and so forth. Or at least give us desert hills so we can have hills in the desert that don't produce food.

* Armies.

* Combat.

From CIV3:
* Diplomacy.

* Strategic Resources.

* CIV3 Food / Commerce / Shield system (because it's not opaque like the CTP2 system).

* Managing the tiles that individual citizens work in the city radius.

New features:
* Hex Map - As a gamer, I hate the inconsistencies that square maps must introduce when simulating a circle. We're most of the way there already with the isometric map. Why not finish the job?

* Better tech tree. Techs having a maximum of 2 prerequisites is too limiting and makes the CIV3 kludge of "eras" necessary. An ideal tech tree would allow a player to research what they wanted at any time, but the prerequisites should make impossible such absurdities as researching Flight before researching the Wheel. Each tech should have up to 6 prerequisites.

* New trade system. Bring back Caravans! I would make them cost 20 shields, but have a pure trade role (no wonder construction). To trade between two cities, connect them with a Caravan to create a trade route. You can build up a trade network this way. Enemy troops can disrupt the trade route if they can get on it. To trade with another civ, they must be sent there.

	05-04-2002 08:14									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I waited over five years for a Civ III that is a big disappointment. Within a month after it was released people started hoping for Civ4 (tells you how good Civ III is).

I really don't feel inclined to eagerly wait another five years for another bomb.

	05-04-2002 08:21									#7
	What's in it for a name? Support Apolyton

I have an idea as to what to name the new game. Instead of naming it Civilization IV how about something like this:

ULTIMATE CIVILIZATION

THAT NAME ROCKS!!!

	05-04-2002 14:04									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Personaly the next Civ type game I would like to see in development would be CTP3

	05-04-2002 14:35									#9
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That'd be like adding vinegar to sawdust with the expectation of producing chocolate fudge ...

	05-04-2002 14:36									#10
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First of all, if anything should be fixed to create a better game than Civ3 and/or CtP2, get rid of the bean counters! They are the ones responsible for both CtP2 and Civ3 being released too early...

quote: Originally posted by Deathwalker Personaly the next Civ type game I would like to see in development would be CTP3

Hear, hear! (I've seen the design docs for CtP2 and some of the most exciting ideas were eventually not implemented - it would be great to see those in a sequel)

If you want to bring the Activision team together again, why would you weaken it by adding Firaxis people to it? I mean, the Firaxis's idea of the sequel to Civ2 is Civ2 + strategic resources. Sorry, not good enough for me, I want actual innovation. Also, I want the developers to care about customizability and be open for fan-input, which Firaxis hardly was; Activision OTOH 'hired' a whole team of fans to alpha-test the game and also took numerous suggestions straight from the forums here on Apolyton and implemented them in the game (i.e. MAD). I don't think I have to bring up customizibility. Now, if you wanted to add Brian Reynolds to the team, that might be open for negotiation...

	05-04-2002 14:59									#11
	Tired of ads?

::shudder::

CTP people corrupting another Civ? As long as Sid gets to be in charge, then, I guess .

And, btw, I highly doubt there will be a CTP3 (Thank God!) judging by the way Activision bailed on the 2nd version of that horribleness.

	05-04-2002 15:09									#12
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This whole discussion is plain theoretical. As far as I believe, at this point, there will be neither a Civ4 nor a CtP3.

The result of a merge would be quite crappy anyway. CtP2 fans would get mad if they had suddenly to deal with workers, and Civ3 fans wouldn't agree with stealth units and such. Well... that's a matter of taste. At least I can see my attorney, and my priest... others may consider them invisible...

Thus, BA-NA-NA!

	05-04-2002 15:15									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus If you want to bring the Activision team together again, why would you weaken it by adding Firaxis people to it?

To get an AI that can at least give a semblence of a challenge out of the box?

To get other interesting ideas on diiferentiation of terrain that CtP's Civ Rip-Off programmers never dreamed of?

To get a game that can be enjoyed in it's simplicity because it works that way? Played Go?

To bug the h*ll out of you?

No, No. OK. I'll admit. What we need is another 16 civs.

	05-04-2002 19:22									#14
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No Earthly idea.

Unles they do the best wich is CTP2 + Civ3 strategic resources + Civ3 culture + Civ3 interface

star mouse,
Dont forget Slic code, Special units and future.
And manage the workable tiles is also one of Activision ideas, in CTP1. And in both CTP games you can have more than 6 prereqs.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 05-04-2002 at 19:45

	05-04-2002 20:00									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Activision OTOH 'hired' a whole team of fans to alpha-test the game and also took numerous suggestions straight from the forums here on Apolyton and implemented them in the game (i.e. MAD).

Do you want to say, the dull and poor CtP2 out of the box version was TESTED and APPROVED by the fans? Yuck, now I'm really disappointed...

	05-04-2002 20:16									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Do you want to say, the dull and poor CtP2 out of the box version was TESTED and APPROVED by the fans? Yuck, now I'm really disappointed...

It was tested, but not approved by the fans. Like I said above, if you really want to ensure the next civ game is good, get rid of those f*cking paranoid and money-minded bean counters

	06-04-2002 00:10									#17
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Judging from today's news item (the interview with Ike Ellis) the REAL sequel to Civ2 (and CTP2) is on the way.

	06-04-2002 02:28									#18
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The problem with this, is that if you get rid of the "f*cking bean counters", then the company doesn't make as much profit. Even if they make a better game, they don't release it at the right time, they don't ship it to the right markets, whatever. And if the developing company doesn't make as much profit, then patches could be a long time in coming.

Steele

	06-04-2002 04:45									#19
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Firaxis collaborates with Activision?

That would be the blind leading the blind wouldn't it?

Great

	06-04-2002 08:11									#20
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It's not the bean counters it's the marketers they need to remove. Or at least the management must keep the suits in their place so they don't go around thinking themselves as kings or something.

I don't think mixing the <em>CtP</em> team and the Firaxis team will do anything constructive. It is not like they don't have ideas. Even we contributed lots of them. What they incorporate into the game is the most important design decision for them to make.

To many diehard <em>Civ</em> fans they did a horrible job of that, but seeing how Firaxis isn't doing so badly, while Quicksilver is feeling the crunch now, just might tell you why Sid & co did what they did. There is one thing called financial reality and it'd be foolhardy for a company to ignore it.

Face it, Sid didn't really want to do another <em>Civ</em>.

	06-04-2002 08:20									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

That is a horrible idea. Activision is dishonest. When making CTP, they called it the official Civ3. Its worse then stealing Derek's glove and selling it. You can't work with people like that.

	06-04-2002 08:46									#22
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It's not the bean counters it's the marketers they need to remove. Or at least the management must keep the suits in their place so they don't go around thinking themselves as kings or something. I don't think mixing the <em>CtP</em> team and the Firaxis team will do anything constructive. It is not like they don't have ideas. Even we contributed lots of them. What they incorporate into the game is the most important design decision for them to make. To many diehard <em>Civ</em> fans they did a horrible job of that, but seeing how Firaxis isn't doing so badly, while Quicksilver is feeling the crunch now, just might tell you why Sid & co did what they did. There is one thing called financial reality and it'd be foolhardy for a company to ignore it. Face it, Sid didn't really want to do another <em>Civ</em>.

I was going to post something like this before, but couldn't find the right words.
Thanks, Urban.

	06-04-2002 18:58									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

...looks like bananas win again...

anyway, i still haven't got civ3... so i don't know...

	07-04-2002 01:54									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Caesar the Great ...looks like bananas win again... anyway, i still haven't got civ3... so i don't know...

***********WARNING!!!***********

RED ALERT!!! RED ALERT!!! RED ALERT!!!
*******************************

DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	07-04-2002 02:14									#25
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Bah, why bother with Civ when you can play EU? Go Paradox!!!

	07-04-2002 08:56									#26
	Got spare money?

at least the C:CTP series had an excuse when the "just one more turn" senario didnt' work out for them

but Sid created civ3, it was a major flop as SP game IMO and doesn't look good for MP.....

what's their excuse....oh yeah...the all mightly dollar......

	07-04-2002 09:11									#27
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I felt that Firaxis did some noteworthy updating to the <em>Civ</em> franchise. The resource model and culture are excellent ideas. Maybe may of the old timers aren't satisfied, and indeed there were many sloppy bugs in the game that are inexcusable.

However, do not forget that Sid games are suppose to be fun, not realistic.

For all you people who are so full of good ideas, why don't you join one of the current <em>Civ</em>-lookalike game projects such as <em>Freeciv</em> or <em>Manifest Destiny</em>?

	07-04-2002 20:23									#28
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It would be better if they both sell the rights to a third company looking for a place in the markets

	07-04-2002 23:16									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Waku It would be better if they both sell the rights to a third company looking for a place in the markets

That would be my company then.