05-04-2002 16:46									#1
	The Palestinian. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This thread is for information and pictures about what is going on in the Middle East.

Everyone is welcomed to contribute with short news and other information.
Thank you.

	05-04-2002 16:50									#2
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Israel knows what it has to do in order for this cycle of violence to cease.

	05-04-2002 16:50									#3
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Would you be so kind as to explain me why we ened another... ANOTHER thread?

Unless you are being completely ironic

	05-04-2002 16:51									#4
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Yep.

Stomp the living daylights out of Al Aqsa and company.

	05-04-2002 16:55									#5
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_ Spanish PM and Chief of the European Union rotating Presidency Aznar (sp) has tried to communicate with Arafat.
Sharon has shut the telephone on his face again and again. Aznar talks about "humiliation of the EU"


_Israeli police beat up Italian journalists and tried to beat up Greek doctors who arrived at Israel. All this happened at the airport. They were send back with the same plane.


_Dead Palestinians are scattered in the streets of Ramalah. Noone knows the exact number of casualties yet. Israeli army does not let ambulances get in.

_Israeli army shoots "anything it moves" on the streets, the murders are many.

_Israeli army entered the house of a Palestinian family, murdered the son and the mother and left the father alive. The father was found shivering next to the dead bodies of his son and wife. (Picture of this coming --- here. Discretion advised. http://ta-nea.dolnet.gr/D04042002/vz3ko1a.jpg )

_Israeli citizens join with European protestors in Ramalah and shout "Nazis" at the Israeli army. They are violently repulsed.

_Protests rage all across Europe and Turkey


Constantinople

http://www.enet.gr/online/servlet/dspphoto?id=24780

Antwerp, Belgium

http://www.enet.gr/online/servlet/dspphoto?id=24779

Paris

http://www.enet.gr/online/servlet/dspphoto?id=24781

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 05-04-2002 at 17:38

	05-04-2002 17:03									#6
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Why are Greeks siding with Arabs?

	05-04-2002 17:15									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Why are Greeks siding with Arabs?

It are not just the Greeks, it is quite the whole EU. Things like pers freedom, human rights and rights for minorities are important values of the EU. So the choice is self-explaining in the eyes of the EU.

(am not taking sides here just showing EU reasoning)

	05-04-2002 17:20									#8
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Attacking, limiting and being rude towards the media was a very bad move of the Iraelis. A journalist who just got beaten won't write very pro-Iraeli. The PR of Irael is horrible. Especial there actions againsts cnn are a very big mistake, cnn controls a lot of the media in the US without US support is Israel's it's economy dead.

	05-04-2002 17:20									#9
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It seems that America has been taking side with Israel so much in that past because there's a big lobby of rich Jews (without taking any position here) in the US that make their policies go that way.

	05-04-2002 18:22									#10
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"The Palestinian."

That sounds like a paragraph headline in some Nazi racial ideology textbook.

Der Palästinenser. Er ist von mittlerem Wuchs, haarig und stinkt.

	05-04-2002 18:23									#11
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don't tempt me... guilt ridden, self-hating Ecthelion...

	05-04-2002 18:24									#12
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I'm having a laugh here today. That is because I have only slept like 5 hours and yesterday was almost 20 hours long.

nihihihih

	05-04-2002 18:48									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Israel knows what it has to do in order for this cycle of violence to cease.

Yes. Dismantle every Israeli settlement in the West Bank and Gaza strip. Completely withdraw from the occupied territories, including the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. And allow the creation of an independent, sovereign and geographically contiguous Palestinian state.

	05-04-2002 19:33									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Israel knows what it has to do in order for this cycle of violence to cease.

No, they can't use their policy as nuclear weapons are too expensive

	05-04-2002 20:05									#15
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quote: Originally posted by kolpo It are not just the Greeks, it is quite the whole EU. Things like pers freedom, human rights and rights for minorities are important values of the EU.

Tell me why the EU supports the PA again?

	05-04-2002 20:32									#16
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Freedom and human rights. Doh.

	05-04-2002 21:06									#17
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What's so wrong about that ideal, Eli?

	05-04-2002 21:18									#18
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Tell me why the EU supports the PA again?

It was not my personal view but that of the EU but, reasosn why I think they mind Iraelis offenses worser then Pals:

-The Israeli pers freedom restrictions are directed towards european journalists and that is what the EU makes angry. Expecial some cases of violace towards EU journalists.
-The pals are a weak minority the Iraelis are a manority an dhave a godlike stronga nd unbeatable army: you feel easier simpaty for the weak then the strong.
-Arabs are viewed as a moral injured surpressed nation fight with it's last breath for there own nation, from people is such conditions don't they mind that much if they do something wrong.
-Many people in EU view Arrafat as a weak leader who want's to calm down the groups but can't and has do be hrad in peace negozations because only then has he a chance to calm down those groups.
-The total dead count of palestines is much bigger then that of jews. Many EU people see that as an indication that israel is more agressive. There are indeed many discusions about why that is(the differnce in dead count) in which nor the pro-palestine nor the pro-isreal side seams to give argumenets that can really convert the other side and most people view those arguments as just propaganda. so they viewn those arguments as subjective but that the dead count is different is simply a fact.

	06-04-2002 22:02									#19
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B U M P

	06-04-2002 22:03									#20
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It's so funny that the US has now condemned Israeli actions - after Israel denied the EU the ability to intervene as we aren't on their side

	06-04-2002 22:17									#21
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Part of that death toll are the suicide bombers themselves

200 or so, I think, and counting.

	06-04-2002 22:24									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Carver Yes. Dismantle every Israeli settlement in the West Bank and Gaza strip. Completely withdraw from the occupied territories, including the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. And allow the creation of an independent, sovereign and geographically contiguous Palestinian state.

Yes, and return to the completely indefensible borders of 1948, while this "sovereign" Palestinian state along with it's arab allies prepares to finish the job.

Israel didn't have the west bank, all of Jerusalem, or the Golan (or the Sinai, but they gave that back when Egypt formally made peace and accepted Israel's right to exist), until Israel was attacked by arab nations.

	06-04-2002 23:30									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Why are Greeks siding with Arabs?

Greeks are not siding all Arabs but Palestinians.
Perhaps because you are wrong now?

quote: Originally posted by kolpo Especial there actions againsts cnn are a very big mistake, cnn controls a lot of the media in the US without US support is Israel's it's economy dead.

Media in the USA are controlled mostly by the Hebrews so this is not going to happen

A protracted crisis in Palestine will possibly cause a protracted petroleum crisis therefore serious economical problems to European economy, America's latest biggest pain in the ass.

Besides America has been basting all world's balls with their "war" against terrorism so since Palestinians acts are considered as terroristic how couldn't backup Israeli's "fair" fight against Palestinian terrorism.

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion It seems that America has been taking side with Israel so much in that past because there's a big lobby of rich Jews (without taking any position here) in the US that make their policies go that way.

Plus the fact that 20-25% of American high ranking officials in the USA are of Hebrew ancestry. That's 1 in the 4-5.

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion That sounds like a paragraph headline in some Nazi racial ideology textbook.

Sharon must have been reading those Nazi textbooks too much lately

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Tell me why the EU supports the PA again?

Haven't Sharon freezed the process of the Palestinian independence Rabin started 7 years ago?
Palestinians deserve a country on their own as you do.
That's why European residents and most citizens of this world support the Palestinians.
I am not sure what you are going to gain with this.
Terror will never stop in that area unless Israel gives independence to the Palestinians or kill all muslims worldwile.

quote: Originally posted by Eli Freedom and human rights. Doh.

Yes, something you fought for long ago and have forget about it.
Well, guess what. It's not only you who deserve freedom and human rights.
There are other people too

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Yes, and return to the completely indefensible borders of 1948, while this "sovereign" Palestinian state along with it's arab allies prepares to finish the job. Israel didn't have the west bank, all of Jerusalem, or the Golan (or the Sinai, but they gave that back when Egypt formally made peace and accepted Israel's right to exist), until Israel was attacked by arab nations.

I support what Israeli's had done until the assasination of Rabin. They fought for their indepence and the retain of it successfully. But now I see no reason for keeping that agressive attitude anymore. Rabin knew that but some other had a different opinion. Palestinian terror attacks are now what Israeli unfairness collects. People might condemn those terror attacks but when some people have lost their families in front of their eyes not because they were terrorists but simply because they were Palestinians and were breathing then you should expect that kind of reaction.

	06-04-2002 23:41									#24
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quote: Originally posted by kolpo It are not just the Greeks, it is quite the whole EU. Things like pers freedom, human rights and rights for minorities are important values of the EU. So the choice is self-explaining in the eyes of the EU. (am not taking sides here just showing EU reasoning)

The EU preaches about the moral reasons for supporting the Pals, but anyone with half a brain knows that neither side has the moral high ground in this struggle. Europe is just protecting its own self interest, but claims to be fighting for "human rights". Funny how they never complain about the human rights of Israeli suicide victims...

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion It seems that America has been taking side with Israel so much in that past because there's a big lobby of rich Jews (without taking any position here) in the US that make their policies go that way.

I'm sure the large Arab minority in Europe has no influence on EU policy. Or the dependence on Arab oil. There's a bias on both sides, but the EU is worse in many ways. The US has reasons to support both Israel and the Arabs. The EU has no reason to support Israel and every reason to support the Arabs.

	06-04-2002 23:46									#25
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Don't say anything more, I'm absolutely convinced by your elaboration.

	06-04-2002 23:47									#26
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Not all American supporters of Israel are jews, and not all American Jews are supporters of Israel. So, cut out this anti-Semitc BS about Jews controlling our policy. Jews are not seperate from Americans.

	06-04-2002 23:49									#27
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Democracy is a rule of majorities, not of all the people.

	07-04-2002 00:46									#28
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"Constantinople

http://www.enet.gr/online/servlet/dspphoto?id=24780"

There is no such city by that name. Perhaps you were reffering to Istanbul?

	07-04-2002 00:48									#29
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There is no such city in your dictionary or map.

We call it Constantinople. You can call it anything you like.

	07-04-2002 01:06									#30
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Not all American supporters of Israel are jews, and not all American Jews are supporters of Israel.

True. But it seems that the supporters outclass.

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So, cut out this anti-Semitc BS about Jews controlling our policy.

Anti-Semitic? What this has to do with what I am talking about? It's true and has nothing to do whether I like or not Hebrews.

In fact I like Hebrews. That doesn't mean that I will support them when they're wrong.

And who invented this stupid term, anti-Semite?
Arabs are Semites too.

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Jews are not seperate from Americans.

Jews are first Jews and then anything else. That's the nature of their religion. Since Israeli's are Jews too you should expect a sympathy and active support on the American Jews behalf.