05-04-2002 19:31									#1
	Super Ironclad? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've seen occasional forum references to the power of the "super ironclad." Is that just basically a veteran unit, or is there something more to the concept?

	05-04-2002 20:23									#2
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Yes, it is a vet ironclad. This unit can attack coastal cities, and clear out any defenders short of riflemen. You get vets built with lighthouse, but lighthouse expires with magnetism, and magnetism is not usually long in arriving after steam engine and it's ironclads. Another method which lasts longer is to build sun-tsu and have the ironclad attack an easy target(barb leader or trireme) to get vet status.

	05-04-2002 20:30									#3
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geofelt tells how to get them. It is a strategy of researching directly to steam engine and building a fleet of ironclads. The AI will still be building triremes (maybe caravels) - and musketeers will still be ages away. With Sun Tzu's, getting vet status is a cinch - sink a trireme, kill a diplomat, or some such easy target, and you are there.

Your ironclads' attack=6, the AI defends with a strength of 3 (assuming veterans). With just a handful of them, you can empty all enemy coastal cities of defenders. With a few caravels full of bad guys, you can quickly control all coastal cities.

One bonus of this strategy is that you often can research flight before the AI reaches gunpowder. Fighters vs. pikemen is very fun! For the pilots, anyway...

	05-04-2002 22:40									#4
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All the above are simple (but powerful) vet Clads...

The Super Ironclad is built by the civ with the Lighthouse and Magellan's - these veteran monsters attack and defend at 6 with a hit power of three and movement of seven - nothing stops them -ever except Magnetism

	07-04-2002 01:39									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits nothing stops them -ever except Magnetism

Noble leader, I salute you!



(the discovery of Magnetism is a very hard blow indeed, but you shouldn't lose your spirit, Jrabbit : once you have a few super ironclads, you can mix them with greenies and still have quite a performing fleet)

	07-04-2002 01:48									#6
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its kinda funny that the ai will normally avoid magnetism for as long as possible unless super irons are in play.AI ain't as dumb as it seems..well sometimes anyways.Actually,after civ3 ai,civ2 ai doesn't look so bad.

can anyone say why destroyers are so lame compared to ironclads.Vet or not.Is it just me?..they have the same fighting numbers but I have more success with ironclads than destroyers..again vets or not.

	07-04-2002 02:26									#7
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destroyers sail faster and have a sharper view than ironclads.
I suppose that the better average results of ironclads in battles are due to the fact that, after a while, all of them are vet and easily send to the bottom any green destroyer they meet.
(main reason why great ironclad lovers are seldom great lovers of Leo's workshop)
Marquis? What do you say?

(smash, Marquis de Sodaq and La Fayette having a look at 100 fierce battles between ironclads and destroyers in order to find out whether it is 50/50)

	08-04-2002 06:47									#8
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette (main reason why great ironclad lovers are seldom great lovers of Leo's workshop) Marquis? What do you say?

Indeed, it is hard to part with that 6/6 attack/defense combination, as it reverts to 4/4 with the "upgrade" - they can now run away faster, tho! However, any wooden AI ship will still be weak against the green destroyer. Besides, with every other upgrade being a true improvement, Leo's is still worth building. Those 10 shield riflemen can't be beat!

	08-04-2002 14:12									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Smash can anyone say why destroyers are so lame compared to ironclads.Vet or not.Is it just me?..they have the same fighting numbers but I have more success with ironclads than destroyers..again vets or not.

It could simply be the March of Time - since Destroyers arrive after Clads they meet more modern units and the old units they meet have had longer to gain vet status.
I too have remarked upon this phenomenon, but as I virtually never build Destroyers the ones I get are ex Clads and it is the loss of vet status that causes the reduction in strength - but it does seem marked even once you have regained vet status.

SG[1] trying to decide whether he has the energy and/or time to perform some tests ...

	09-04-2002 03:27									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Smash can anyone say why destroyers are so lame compared to ironclads.Vet or not.Is it just me?..they have the same fighting numbers but I have more success with ironclads than destroyers..again vets or not.

Yes, I have often thought this! However, I think it is more apparent than real. Steam Engine comes with Physics and Invention but Electricity requires the two "Ms" - Metallurgy and Magnetism...quite a bit later. As SG[1] says the Destroyer faces more capable units. Ironclads face Legions and Archers whilst their successors square up to Musketeers.

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SG(2)