06-04-2002 01:13									#1
	Loans and Threats: Why? Remove this text

I'm wondering if anyone has ever gotten a loan of gold or successfully extorted a rival they were at peace with.

It seems to me they couldn't get these features to work, but put them in anyway.

	06-04-2002 01:19									#2
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I've never gotten a loan.

Does this feature actually functions any time at all?

AJ

	06-04-2002 01:32									#3
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I've never tried for a loan. I have never used "give me this or else" except to anger an AI enough so they would attack me: gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, remove your troops or declare war!

Extortion, however, as in renegotiating a peace treaty, works rather well.

-Arrian

	06-04-2002 01:33									#4
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I've gotten a threat to work before, got 2 techs out of the Indians after I had just gotten done crushing the Russians and the Romans (I was the Persians). The Indians were next on the chopping block, so I figured I'd give it a shot and got what I wanted. Didn't deter me from going after them 10 turns later, though

	06-04-2002 05:24									#5
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i'm a warmonger and a master of extortion.

when you're killing an AI, and they come begging for peace, make them pay 20 gold per turn (lump it in with the peace treaty offer).

then, in 20 turns or so, they'll come to you and ask to renew the peace treaty, and you can put in a new number (usually a lower one if they got stronger etc), and if you dont like the deal, you can go to war without a blackmark, and your not the agressor (for you people who like democracy).

and as for a loan, the button never works for me, but i did get 100 gold for 10 gold per turn.

	06-04-2002 05:49									#6
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I've managed to get the other Civs to offer me a loan a few times, but I've never accepted it. It worked in SMAC, because you could use the money to rush SPs, but it doesn't work in Civ3, largely because in the early game no-one needs money and no-one has any, and later on you should have enough money anyway.

	06-04-2002 08:17									#7
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Yes, it's fun to create "Versailles" style peace treaties, but I want to skip the fighting phase of the bullying. It never seems to work, even when I'm obviously poised to do some damage. I'd rather "shake the mailed glove" and get some quick cash then deal with a bunch of 100% corrupt cities that are conquered, at least later in the game.

I'll have to try extorting right after "making an example" of another rival, as suggested.

	06-04-2002 08:32									#8
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well you have to put the AI's in their place.

in the game i'm playing right now, i was at war with 4 civs at once. the whole continent was at war with eachother, but since i'm the largest i get the most flak.

anyway, i was china so my riders started smashing babylon up. i took 7 cities with a total of 2 wonders (great lighthouse and copernicus') and i was planning the kill. they had just gotten saltpeter from somewhere, so they were actually putting up a defence, so i was open for a truce, until i can get calvary. so they come up to me (as they do every other turn) and beg for peace.

so i took silk, 27 gold per turn, 2 techs, and 3 cities in the peace deal.

but the cities start out empty... and the other AIs bumrushed them .

but anyway, each turn of peace yields me gold and free silk. good deal.

	06-04-2002 12:31									#9
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quote: but the cities start out empty... and the other AIs bumrushed them .

Aren't cities you get through culture flip/diplomacy meant to come w/ a free defender?

	06-04-2002 12:43									#10
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I have used the extortion feature successfully, but never had any success with loans.

	06-04-2002 13:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Aren't cities you get through culture flip/diplomacy meant to come w/ a free defender?

cities that culture flip come with defenders, cities that are given through diplomacy are not. Probably to avoid the loophole in future mp where two players could trade cities back and forth to raise a quick defensive army.

	06-04-2002 13:11									#12
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never got a loan, only tried a few times. but now w/ 1.17 the ai seems so broke, that it would hardly be worth it. too bad, I remeber the AI asking for loans all the time in SMAX

	07-04-2002 09:41									#13
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I've had loans and tribute in nearly every game.

http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/gotm5/1838ad.htm

	08-04-2002 01:45									#14
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To loan do the following:
We want:
90 gold
We give:
5 gold (per turn)

It worked the other way around as well (it was prepatch.)

But I gues that is not what you ment.
It is really stupid the AI can come over to you with demands and can immediately declare war if you choose not to comply, while you can't.

	08-04-2002 03:18									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Beren It is really stupid the AI can come over to you with demands and can immediately declare war if you choose not to comply, while you can't.

?

You can declare war anytime. You can even declare war honorably as long as the original term of the peace treaty (20 turns) has expired.

	08-04-2002 04:34									#16
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quote: It is really stupid the AI can come over to you with demands and can immediately declare war if you choose not to comply, while you can't.

The easiest way to do this is renogiate peace and if the AI refuses to give you what you want, say 'never mind'. It's equivalent to a DOW.

	08-04-2002 15:33									#17
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I've asked this before but have already forgotten about it:

how can you monitor when the peace agreement expires?

how can you renegotiate the peace treaty itself (in case when you're the one that demands more techs/gold to allow a renewal of the treaty).

I know there must be a way, but I can't figure it out.

AJ

	08-04-2002 15:52									#18
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You can renegotiate current deals by clicking on "Active" in the diplomacy screen. Seems to not be a very intuitive interface. I had to ask this question myself a while back.

Attachment: renegotiate.jpg
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	08-04-2002 16:40									#19
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Yes, click on active. If there is a number by the peace treaty, that means that the original term of the treaty is still in effect. If you cancel an expired treaty, then there is no hit to your reputation. It is not a dishonor to fight a war to protect your people. It is only a dishonor to say one thing and do another.

Declare war before you attack.

	08-04-2002 17:35									#20
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Thanks, I won't forget about this one for my next games.
Can make a big difference in terms of 'milking' the defeated civ.

I've never noticed the 'new' and 'active' buttons before though ...

Must check it out later on ...

AJ

	08-04-2002 18:51									#21
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quote: Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR Thanks, I won't forget about this one for my next games. Can make a big difference in terms of 'milking' the defeated civ. I've never noticed the 'new' and 'active' buttons before though ... Must check it out later on ... AJ

You can also "milk" existing peace treaties -- every 20 turns.

	08-04-2002 20:33									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I only recently began using peace treaty renegotiation in my games. Not with beaten civs - I rarely let them live, and if I do, they aren't viable. With civs I have not yeat fought.

Example:

I had destroyed Babylon & China, and was partway through Persia. I called up Ghandi, the last untouched AI on my continent, and renegotiated peace. I received two techs (code of laws and polytheism, I think).

-Arrian

	08-04-2002 21:19									#23
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I also use peace renegotiation, and it works great. Starting about 2000BC, I renegotiate peace with every civ that's below me in the powergraph (that's usually all), every 20 turns. I extort all, although not all give me cities. I take all they give. Gandhi practically plays OCC, he usually has 1 gold or so. I take it. I prepared a special table, not to forget a treaty. Works amazing, although it shows that the AI acts in the ancient age astoundingly lame. I just "extorted" contact with the Japanese from another civ. They are at an island of their own. First act, after saying hello, was to negotiate peace. Will you give me a city for not attacking you, Tokugawa? Sure he did. If I had such a decent island, I never would give a city away, and smash all invaders... I am so weak, I can't even attack. But all AI's are scared, see my post in the "Alexander" thread.

	08-04-2002 21:56									#24
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That renegotiating is definitely a buried feature. I only found out about it a little while ago when Aeson posted that ICS method and he talked about renegotiating peace treaties to get free cities. Oy, I wish there were a screen that simply listed all your active deals rather than having to call up the civ, and then clicking Active. No no I'm not really here to talk to you, I'm just trying to find out how much longer our deal has to go. And then of course you have to click New to get out of the screen. Annoying interface design there.

	08-04-2002 23:04									#25
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it is buried...I had no idea the renegotiation feature existed. That's why I come here, though!

I did finally succeed in a threat...40 Gold. A real boon for my despotism.

The AI seems to have no idea when it's in big trouble, until you force a shameful peace or "renegotiate," of course. Got to try that.