06-04-2002 05:09									#1
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China confirms space station plan

quote: Plans to build a Chinese space station were first revealed in 1999 but little further information has been provided. According to some reports, China also intends to launch a manned mission to the moon by 2010

China launches dummy astronaut

quote: China hopes to become only the third nation to place a human in space after Russia and the US. Some Chinese media reports indicate that a manned launch could take place as early as 2003 and that the nation aims to put a man on the Moon

Ok presume that China were able to get men on the moon and back again, within the near future (i.e no-one start saying they don't have the technology yada, yada, yada..). What would be the point- a political message to the world? National pride? Technological advancement? I see no reason for the Chinese to do this, or make claims about doing this. Its a dead-end.

Thoughts...

	06-04-2002 05:10									#2
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It means China can bomb the United States.

	06-04-2002 05:11									#3
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You don't need to go to the moon to do that.

	06-04-2002 05:13									#4
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Why did the US do it then?

	06-04-2002 05:14									#5
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The cold war. To proove a political point that the US had the biggest d!ck.

	06-04-2002 05:18									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin What would be the point- a political message to the world? National pride? Technological advancement?

Yes, Yes, and yes.

	06-04-2002 05:20									#7
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Maybe they intend to over populate the moon as well.

Or perhaps this is just another ploy to earn a few bucks sending boy band members to the moon like commrade Russia sends them to the space station.

	06-04-2002 05:24									#8
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan Why did the US do it then?

To show it could bomb the USSR.

	06-04-2002 05:26									#9
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Maybe this'll scare the US+EU into spending more money on space development.

	06-04-2002 05:53									#10
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KH: we can only hope.

if nasa didnt take so many funding cuts we could be walking on mars by now

	06-04-2002 06:08									#11
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China is going nowhere in manned space flight, but there's no harm in having unrealistic goals, I guess. Somewhat inspiring, since space is really only what you make of it.

KH: The US already spends at least $5 billion per annum on manned space flight. EU does about 1/10th that.

	06-04-2002 06:20									#12
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I doubt that China has any serious space program plans, and those would be for national pride and a show of stgrength if anything. The most important goal for the Chinese government is missile technology, so that the MAD defense does work indeed against the US/EU. This would of course increase the chances that the world will cometo a thermonuclear end.

	06-04-2002 06:28									#13
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To add on to Shadowstrike, I think we should see this as China's response to Bush's missile shield. This is just what we opponents of the damn thing predicted, it will lead to greater instability.

Gotta love conservatives. Shafting the future to loot the present.

	06-04-2002 06:32									#14
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At least from a rhetorical standpoint, the PRC is out to be the next superpower - anything they can do, or claim they intend to do, to inflate national pride and ego serves a purpose.

It's really irrelevant to missile defense (which I've never been a big fan of, I'd rather spend the money elsewhere on more useful military capabilities)

	06-04-2002 06:36									#15
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The really alarming thing about this is the uncertainty of China's political system. Simply put it we don't know if the next strongman in Beijing will be a hardliner who recalls the days of the Great Leap Forward (a ultimately foolish endevour that killed millions), or a progressive Chinese Gorberchev.

Of course blaming the Repbulicans along is pretty much just finding a scapegoat. The Chinese have pretty much wanted to do this since the 60s. The missile shield may have sped up teh Chinese program, but I'm pretty sure that they would go ahead with it anyhow.

	06-04-2002 06:36									#16
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MtG, aren't you supposed to be wearing a dress or something? Whatever happened with you and Horsie's bet?

	06-04-2002 06:36									#17
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Space.com posted an article saying some FAS guys think the mysterious extra nose module is an experimental 'nanosat', a small remote controlled satellite which is meant to disable other satellites.

	06-04-2002 06:40									#18
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara MtG, aren't you supposed to be wearing a dress or something? Whatever happened with you and Horsie's bet?

Horsie mentioned something about April 7. There's some other stuff coming up, too, so I don't know what the resolution is. We don't have confirmation of OBL's status one way or another, and probably never will have, unless he shows up somewhere to make a point.

I personally think he's been buzzard **** up in the mountains for some time - he wasn't the paragon of health and vigor in his last video.

Anyway, I'll PM Horsie in the next day or two to figure out the resolution.

	06-04-2002 07:09									#19
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Hu Jintao, the likely candidate for leadership of the Chinese government, is a moderate and seems to emphasize economics over political ideology. This comes as no surprise, since he was chosen by Deng Xiaoping way back in 1996, and also supported by Jiang Zemin, both of whom are well-known (and sometimes disliked) for their support of economy over communist teachings.

As for the space flight, I was amused by the amount of negative feeling that the western press appears to have generated about this. Some of the New York Times reader comments ranged from the coolly dismissive to heated attacks ("Those Red Commies must have forced the astronauts into the cockpit with AK-47s!" etc). The American response to Sputnik I could understand, and the national achievement of the Apollo Programs is very real, but this is just another country following the great example of space exploration.

I wonder if the media were less unilaterally critical of China, whether the global feelings towards this country would be somewhat better too. A plan to put a man in space should not be interpreted as some covert plan to nuke a country (or seven).

	06-04-2002 07:23									#20
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While putting people is space is an admirable achievement, China isn't exactly doing that to collect moon rocks or build space cities. The most immediate appilcation of the technology would be missiles, and a nation that can send a man to the Moon will have the tech to nuke anything else on the planet. The PRC is still very much a military state, moving towards democracy (or so we hope).

	06-04-2002 07:31									#21
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Shadowstrike, hitting anything on the planet is not contingent on being able to put a man on the moon. Developing a viable long-range ICBM wouln't cost a tenth (or prabably even a hundredth) of what a lunar mission would cost.

	06-04-2002 07:55									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia As for the space flight, I was amused by the amount of negative feeling that the western press appears to have generated about this. Some of the New York Times reader comments ranged from the coolly dismissive to heated attacks ("Those Red Commies must have forced the astronauts into the cockpit with AK-47s!" etc). The American response to Sputnik I could understand, and the national achievement of the Apollo Programs is very real, but this is just another country following the great example of space exploration.

The West is very jealos. For them commies=barbarians. They simply can't accept the fact the commies may be more advanced then they are in some fields.
I've heard many times how they saying- "you've send the first space sattelite and the first spaceman earlier then USA only because of political reasons, we had better technologies". Funny bullsh1t. They will twist facts as they like, but will never accept the defeat properly.

	06-04-2002 08:07									#23
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What defeat? Yeah, they got there first, we did the rest.

And Salyut / Mir was a hell of an accomplishment, but we went in a different direction with the STS.

	06-04-2002 08:10									#24
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Shadowstrike, hitting anything on the planet is not contingent on being able to put a man on the moon. Developing a viable long-range ICBM wouln't cost a tenth (or prabably even a hundredth) of what a lunar mission would cost.

My point was that should they be actively pursuing this kind of stuff (space tech), everyone else would immediately suspect them of trying to built long range ICBMs.

	06-04-2002 08:33									#25
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They already have long range ICBMs. Long range rocketry is a prerequisite technology for space flight, esp. to the moon and other planets.

I suppose the point of having a moon program is to integrate all the necessary technology and make them work together. This will spin off into various military and civlian sectors.

	06-04-2002 08:34									#26
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Suspect them? They already have long-range ICBMs, and whether or not they did this, I'd be pretty sure they were trying to upgrade their arsenal.

EDIT: Bastard crossposter.

	06-04-2002 08:46									#27
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat What defeat? Yeah, they got there first, we did the rest. And Salyut / Mir was a hell of an accomplishment, but we went in a different direction with the STS.

What type of different direction?
Are you talking about international orbital station? If yes, then I don't understand why only YOU are? We are partners in this progect and without our space technologies you'll go in "nowhere direction".
May be for Americans it is the first Orbital station, for us it is 13th. We already have an experience of long space flight, you've just started to gain in orbital station. Our spacemans lived on Earth orbit for more then year (the record is 500 days or something near) long ago.

	06-04-2002 08:58									#28
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As an American patriot and anti-communist I don't see the harm in China going up into space. Good for them. It is rather biased to assume that the "evil communists" have some plot for world destruction up their sleves no matter what they do. In my limited news watching I haven't seen many hostile moves from China, and from what I hear they have no ambitions to be a world power like the US.

They just want to climb the highest mountain cause its there. I respect that, hopefully our country will do more of the same.

	06-04-2002 09:06									#29
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP I hear they have no ambitions to be a world power like the US.

Start to worry then.
I can asure you that they have such ambitions, and they will be more powerfull then USA soon.
And they are far away from commies now, the only reason your media prtraying them like "evil commies" is just because they are your enemies as future compititor in world dominance.

	06-04-2002 09:13									#30
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It's nice to see that the Chinese are concentrating on whats important. Yet another trip to the moon.