06-04-2002 05:42									#1
	Sencho-b-gone too. Remove this text

It seems that people in moderating positions aren't allowed to voice opinions on Moo3 any longer. As such I've been stripped, wrongly as I feel, of my moderator status at the Delphi forums. Consequently, I'm terminating my affiliation with QS.

I ask the mods here to reset my nickname to whatever is appropriate for one of their guests, not to make a big fuss out of this post, and continue their good work.

As such, I will no longer be visiting the Delphi board and cannot keep you informed as to the progress of Moo3. I have had the pleasure of working with the people at QS and considered their treatment of fans a great success. But their sudden, dark about-face is troubling.

I still hope Moo3 turns out to be a great game of course, but I cannot support it based on the treatment I received.

Yours,
Sencho

	06-04-2002 06:55									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well, it had to take this to get me to come over here and post something.

I'm sorry about your bad experience, but may I ask what happened?

	06-04-2002 06:55									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, hopefully this can still look good on a resume, if your real job is ever in danger. Hopefully you also have some good memories of the experience.

Maybe you should check out what Velociryx is doing, sounds like he wouldn't mind an extra hand.

Hahaha, you're probably hooked to the Poly forums now

	06-04-2002 06:58									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Darn it, the post appeared twice, and im not allowed to delete it..lol

Last edited by PlacidDragon on 06-04-2002 at 07:03

	06-04-2002 07:00									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I am very sorry to hear that you are no longer moderating the MoO 3 Delphi board Sencho..believe it or not, even if the two of us didnt always see eye to eye on everything (ok..who am i kidding, we didnt...lol) you were always polite (as opposed to some other moderators, but i wont mention names).

Ever since Alan Emrich got his "ban" from posting on Delphi, things have been going downhill fast on that forum.

Suddenly, every "hot shot" from QS gets involved, Bill Fisher, Cory Nelson, Rantz is more visible than ever...and while they are trying to do some damage control, they are being as vague about what happens as possible. (maybe understandable due to their situation, but hardly acceptable, at least not from my standpoint)

These last few days have also seen the moderators running on a rampage...deleting at will, and for no apparent reason. (i bet it was you who deleted my post ! lol) When is this going to end, when they have banned all doubters and nay sayers of the board so they can run a board full of exultant "yes" people ? geez...i have seen a lot of things, but this move by QS looks to me like they cant wait to die of old age, but are already at digging their own graves....

I dont expect you to reply to this Sencho, i just needed to speak my mind

	06-04-2002 07:02									#6
	Remove this text

"By the pricking in my thumb, something wicked this way comes."

"..strange things are afoot at the circle-K."

"I sense a presence I've not felt since..."




Between this, Alan Emrich's speach, and the recent gossip/news of feature cuts, I am losing confidence in MoO3.

What does it all mean?

	06-04-2002 07:10									#7
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It means, my friend, you are correct.

Something wicked this way comes.

	06-04-2002 07:11									#8
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That's to bad Sencho.

This question has probably been asked by too many people already, but what in the world is going on at QS?

(Or at least what do you think is going on?)

	06-04-2002 08:25									#9
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Looks like Moo3 got infogreeded.
I wonder if its infogreeds policy to force publishers to be vague to the public.

	06-04-2002 09:44									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SeanV That's to bad Sencho. This question has probably been asked by too many people already, but what in the world is going on at QS? (Or at least what do you think is going on?)

The real problem is I was banned for 'bashing QSI' in other fora. Apparantly any comment that can possibly be considered negative is considered bashing, regardless of my right to speak freely on my own time.

When I talked to the producer about this, he talked about Mod's 'bashing' QSI. But he patently refused to answer when I asked if I was a problem. Further, at no point, were any rules of behavior codified to let me know there was a problem nor could any instances where I supposedly bashed QSI be found.

I'm very upset, very angry, and said producer is happy to sweep me under the rug instead of realize he's hyper-reacting. He's a nice guy, and I have enjoyed talking with him in the past, but right now this is completely unacceptable.

I'm angry, I've been slandered and misrepresented, and I've been asked to censor people all an employee representing QS who seems to have no problem doing this to a (former) die-hard fan.

If someone, as an official of a company, asks me to violate the rules and regulations of a forum, and laws of the US and California, I will react this way every time.

So, again, I have never, to the best of my knowledge, bashed QS.

	06-04-2002 10:19									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Its almost looking as though IG is in the process of creating yet another self-fulfilling prophecy. I'd guess them to be behind it after that lawsuit debacle over CF's German translation of civ3. Don't they understand that this sort of thing creates much more bad publicity in the most important elements of their fan base than a few negative opinions?
Negative opinions are just that. Opinions. But if these are deliberately quashed just for being then they become much more than that.

Condolences Sencho.

I can understand a few lay-offs if a project goes beyond its deadline and they have to try and redress their costs but this is starting to look pretty bad.
From what I knew of it I was going to get it as soon as it came out, pretty much no matter what.
Now I'm going to have to take a long hard look at it first before deciding...

	06-04-2002 11:13									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm sorry to see you go sencho.. ever sience alans banning QS seems to be doing damage conrol in the worng way (stoping bashers , over reacting and not in the right way realsing info to calm us).

I hope you had a fun time with QS. everything going down hill.
well I hope we shall still be able to chat.

	06-04-2002 12:12									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

sorry to hear about it Sencho. title("Volunteer MOO3 Events Dude" for the records) removed...

i hope you'll stay around here!

Last edited by MarkG on 06-04-2002 at 12:31

	06-04-2002 12:29									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

They must be pretty hard up if you're the best scapegoat they could come up with.

	06-04-2002 12:48									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Thanks everyone.

Mark, I won't be leaving. I love your forums, even if I don't frequent them as often as I like.

And Loinberger, that's the best theory I've seen yet to explain this madness.

Ace, I'm not dying, just refusing to participate on a forum that has become actively anti-fan.

Rav, I won't speculate beyond damage control gone maddeningly wrong. I'm just glad I was a lowly volunteer and not a paid employee. Then again, I enjoyed being a liason between them and you guys. Something about no good deed going unpunished.

	06-04-2002 23:00									#16
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So you are still able to return sencho? i got the impression you were banned

	06-04-2002 23:18									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

No, not banned. Just angry. In theory I can return there whenever I wish, but until several issues are redressed, there is absolutely no reason for me to go there.

	07-04-2002 01:14									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Something I found on delphi forums:

quote: While Sencho has always been fair and supportive on these boards there was a poll and some posts on other forums that we felt were questionable. There was definately a grey area and the posts could have been interpreted either way, but moderators represent the company and so we felt it would be better to remove him. I'm sure some folks (including Sencho) disagree with the decision and certainly we didn't like making it. He has not been removed from the boards in anyway, we've just removed his Moderator status. Cory Nelson, Producer Quicksilver Software, Inc.

	07-04-2002 01:17									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I totaly disagree with Mr. Nelson.

Sencho should post what he wants in his free time on OTHER forums.
That's his private life.

He just should not break his NDA. (and he isn't)

	07-04-2002 01:19									#20
	Got spare money?

And removing MODERatior status (on DELPHI forums) for posting something on OTHER (non DELPHI forums) forums looks silly.

	07-04-2002 03:15									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

A shovel not being a sufficient tool for the size of the hole they're digging, it appears that they've switched to a backhoe. We may need to locate a steam shovel next.

On the plus side, since this game is being aimed at a much broader market than just the hard-core fans, I'm sure that most prospective buyers aren't likely to have read any of this stuff...

	07-04-2002 03:24									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Stormhound On the plus side, since this game is being aimed at a much broader market than just the hard-core fans, I'm sure that most prospective buyers aren't likely to have read any of this stuff...

Games that are changed to please more people rarely work out you can't please anyone.

As far the ignorance of most buyers regarding QS's behavior that may work for the general population but i'm sure this knowledge will spread among the game developers, all it takes is on person who knows to post on another board and the avalanche begins.

Even I am beginning to switch to this board, because i have lost faith in MOO3 and don't want to be surrounded by paranoid mods and the eternal rumor machine

	07-04-2002 03:45									#23
	Remove this text

"No, not banned. Just angry. In theory I can return there whenever I wish, but until several issues are redressed, there is absolutely no reason for me to go there."

You were always fair. I scratch my head too?????

It is funny how someone always hears something different from what one says - even with the written word.
Just goes to show that we all speak English but we all understand a different language.

187 days to end of third quarter.

	07-04-2002 03:51									#24
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It wasn't about being a fair mod, QS just didn't like the fact that sencho has an oppinion that doesn't completely agree with theirs.

	07-04-2002 04:09									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Stormhound A shovel not being a sufficient tool for the size of the hole they're digging, it appears that they've switched to a backhoe. We may need to locate a steam shovel next. On the plus side, since this game is being aimed at a much broader market than just the hard-core fans, I'm sure that most prospective buyers aren't likely to have read any of this stuff...

I find the extent to which they seem determined to shoot themselves in both feet quite astounding.

The appropriate response to speech one does not like has always been to counter with your own information / views, not to censor the speech you don't like.

I will undoubtedly still buy the game, because I think it will be fun. I will also undoubtedly feel a good deal of disdain for the company because:

1) A game is just a game.
2) Free Speech is NEVER "just" Free Speech.

An NDA I can respect. A hyper-over-reaction to manage "perceptions" deserves nothing but well-merited scorn.

I have to admit that I expected the fans on the delphi boards to over-react. I have to admit I also (wrongly) expected QS to NOT over-react - to keep their heads. Ah, well, always another opportunity for disappointment.

I wish there were a real way I could help you and sencho out - but short of that, I will give you my regards. Good luck, you two!

tmd

	07-04-2002 04:39									#26
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

One further point of interest...Cory Nelson recently visited a certain location to complain that the persons there were afraid to make the same comments on the MOO board as they were in this other location.

Storm (my fiancee) took this as a challenge, and cut and pasted her remarks just a little while ago to prove that she was willing to say the same things in public as in private.

The post was deleted within an hour.

I think that we can see who's afraid of what at this point.

But don't worry, there's still worse news to come sometime around the middle of the month.

	07-04-2002 04:51									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Stormhound But don't worry, there's still worse news to come sometime around the middle of the month.

What for example?
(you start to be pessimistic as yin)




....






Ah, now remebemer!

THE OFFICIAL LIST OF CUTS & SLASHS

	07-04-2002 04:54									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Stormhound One further point of interest...Cory Nelson recently visited a certain location to complain that the persons there were afraid to make the same comments on the MOO board as they were in this other location.

Hmm, and where exacly is that location?




P.S.
This is not the delphi forum, nobody would delete your post for posting a link.

	07-04-2002 05:29									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Stormhound But don't worry, there's still worse news to come sometime around the middle of the month.

Glorious! Morrowind, here I come!

	07-04-2002 06:00									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sorry, but that location is currently a private forum. Even I didn't know about it until after I became ex-QS and got invited.

BTW, Storm now reports she's also been banned from the chat room. Guess Cory really didn't want to hear people speak after all...

As to the bad news, it's not something you're already expecting, but that's all you get for now. Just keep in mind that I told you ahead of time that I'd have an announcement for April 1, and I think I had something interesting to say at that point...

Last edited by Stormhound on 07-04-2002 at 06:12