07-04-2002 09:07									#31
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quote: Originally posted by sparkplug I hate Timbaland and Missy Elliot But thats my biased opinion.

What!?! Shun him!

Orange, you aren't the only one who loves 'Nilla. "Cool As Ice" is the greatest movie ever! Drop that zero and get with a hero....

Ok, maybe not.

	07-04-2002 09:33									#32
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no

	07-04-2002 09:34									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Asher yoyoyo whats up my niggahs gonna shoot some cops yo blasta cop yo yo yo yeah yeah cop blasting yeah niggah uh niggah uh blast uh yeah blast a cop yo yay music

Did you read my Common quote? Nothing about killing cops there...

	07-04-2002 09:36									#34
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There's no references to cop killing in my Tupac quote either. Tupac's only interested in killing mark ass Bad Boy *****es...

	07-04-2002 09:38									#35
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Killing people who are allies of P.Diddy, Daddy, or whatever the **** he's called nowadays is perfectly justified, IMO

	07-04-2002 10:27									#36
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rap music isn't music. i dont care if i'm overgeneralizing but any music that says "i shot a cop" isn't music. it's riot chanting.

	07-04-2002 10:31									#37
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I think 2pac summed himself and rap up in these few lines from Words of Wisdom:


Steady strong nobody's gonna like what I pumpin'
But its wrong to keeping someone from learning something
So get up, its time to start nation building
I'm fed up, we gotta start teaching childern
That they can be all that they wanna be
There's much more to life than just poverty
Words of Wisdom
They shine upon the strength of an nation
Conquer the enemy arm with education
Protect thy self, reach with what you wanna do
Know thy self, teach what we been through
On with the knowledge of the place, then
No one will ever oppress this race again


thanks

	07-04-2002 10:36									#38
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX rap music isn't music. i dont care if i'm overgeneralizing but any music that says "i shot a cop" isn't music. it's riot chanting.

Well, read my quote of the rapper Common. NO anti police sentiment there. Of course, alot of rap has some anti police sentiment. But some rappers are anti police cuz they want to sell records and others are anti police because they think the police and the government are racist. Maybe I don't agree with all of that but it's much better listening to someone's thoughts on politics than listening to some one bragging about cars,money,women, etc.

	07-04-2002 10:40									#39
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2Pac is a greatartist because he managed to provide a street level ghetto commentary and a socio political commentary at the same time. Unlike all of these idiots like Jay Z and Ja Rule.

	07-04-2002 11:02									#40
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I was looking at AMG info of Until the End of Time by 2pac and noticed this...

quote: Performers Darrell Crooks : Guitar Greg Dalton : Guitar Honey : Vocals (Background) Eric Jackson : Guitar Greg Johnson : Guitar Ronnie King : Keyboards Shiro : Vocals (Background) Six Feet Deep : Keyboards, Vocals (Background) Timothy : Vocals Marlon Williams : Guitar Barbara Wilson : Vocals (Background)

no music, eh? Five guitar players and and two keyboard players...

	07-04-2002 11:21									#41
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So now Lord of the Rings is music because it has artists too?

Rap is poetry SET to beat, or occasionally music.
Rap itself is not music.

	07-04-2002 12:45									#42
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX any music that says "i shot a cop" isn't music. it's riot chanting.

Does that apply for speed metal? "Cop Killer" isn't rap, it's speed metal. Screwdriver is a neo-nazi rock band.

	07-04-2002 15:27									#43
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Surely singing is irrelevant to whether something is classified as music or not. By Asher's definition all non-singing expression isn't music... Instrumentals, et al.

I'd like to second the general admiratio for the works of Timbaland and Missy Elliott. And for those you can't even claim the usual bullshit about "sampled music not being music" since they're irrevocably sample-less.

	07-04-2002 15:33									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Snapcase Surely singing is irrelevant to whether something is classified as music or not. By Asher's definition all non-singing expression isn't music... Instrumentals, et al.

Nonsense. My definition includes instrumentals.

My definition doesn't include rap because rap is poetry. Rap set to music is not music in the same way music videos are not music but rather videos.

	07-04-2002 16:33									#45
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The key to hip-hop, in fact the original purpose of hip-hop before Rapping came into the picture, was the "beats" ie. the music. Rap Music is only so called because someone is rapping over it- the music doesn't exist to accompany the Rap, the Rap exists to provide texture, meaning and rhythm to the music. It's like Dub, I suppose- is Dub not music because a deejay toasts over it?

	07-04-2002 17:43									#46
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IMO 98% of rap is beyond all redemption. It's amusical crap. Thank god I can't understand most of the lyrics.

	07-04-2002 17:45									#47
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Never seen the appeal myself either.

	07-04-2002 18:40									#48
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Aw, come on. Massive Attack? Just about the best active British band.

	07-04-2002 22:08									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Nonsense. My definition includes instrumentals. My definition doesn't include rap because rap is poetry. Rap set to music is not music in the same way music videos are not music but rather videos.

I agree,500 years from now they will be teaching students about the great American poetry era 85'-05'May it rest in Peace.

	07-04-2002 22:10									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny Aw, come on. Massive Attack? Just about the best active British band.

Ahem

Idlewild?

	07-04-2002 23:09									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny Aw, come on. Massive Attack? Just about the best active British band.

Good band, unfortunately not Hip-hop.

Some rap is very good, try "Beneath The Surface" by Gza, but Missy Elliot makes me develop a$$ tumors. Like in the annoying Molin Rogue song, she's just utter piece of sh1t, IMO.

Wouldn't class her as rap anyway.

	08-04-2002 00:02									#52
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heres a pratical anti-rap arguement...

Any rap that has meaning is generally about racism and the ghettos and social injustices. There is nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately it does create attitudes in the black communities that are problematic. First of all, nearly all if not all rap uses socially unacceptable language and hardly ever even resembles proper english. In general blacks who listen to this music are not upper class and live in poorer neighborhoods. At home they are not exposed to proper english, at school and everywhere the same is true. Thus the only manner in which they know how to speak is the kind all around them, and in particular in rap music. Yes, this is partly due to a failure by schools and parents but nonetheless music's influence cannot be denied here. Without knowledge of proper speech nor writing skills it becomes very hard for lower class blacks to advance in society, rather they become caught in a cycle from which they can never escape.

All this brews the attitude that they can only become successful either by becoming a rapper or an athelete. Clearly the chances of entering one of these professions is very small. And once they are unable to advance in society in these ways, a significant number turn to crime. By discouraging such a lifestyle in both music and at schools many more opportunities will open up for blacks in poorer communities. If all kids are ever exposed to is a bunch of guys cursing every few seconds and never learn what they should and shouldn't say (particularly when trying to find work) social advancement would result.

	08-04-2002 00:25									#53
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3/10

	08-04-2002 01:21									#54
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quote: Clutch Careful with that Mic

Generally, I think Rap is music. The important things for me are the hiphop beats ,I like it mixed real nice with techno.

	08-04-2002 01:45									#55
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I love Americans and their inability to accept a living language...

I'm vaguely wondering what it is about Hip-Hop exactly that drives the non-musical public nuts. It seems that the standard answer for taste-exempted sports stars, TV personalities, etc. in interviews when asked about their music tastes is turns out to be "I litsen to a bit of everything, except Rap". What they mean, of course, is that they litsen to cheese and shite eighties classic rock, but still. What makes Rap, by all accounts one of the cutting edges of contemporary music, so vehemently objectionable? All I know is, it must be doing something right... The beat construction, maybe? Polyrhythms, which of course is the starting point for any African-American musical form, have their fullest extension in Hip-Hop today. Is it the production? Because today the edge of musical production lies within suprisingly commerical hip-hop. Oh well, at least one can rest assured that Hip-Hop is the broader musical style and that the non-musical public are simply limiting their scope...

	08-04-2002 01:47									#56
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you can 'rap' over metal, soul, reggae or whatever. Hip Hop is the music, there is a difference.

	08-04-2002 02:02									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Snapcase I love Americans and their inability to accept a living language... I'm vaguely wondering what it is about Hip-Hop exactly that drives the non-musical public nuts. It seems that the standard answer for taste-exempted sports stars, TV personalities, etc. in interviews when asked about their music tastes is turns out to be "I litsen to a bit of everything, except Rap". What they mean, of course, is that they litsen to cheese and shite eighties classic rock, but still. What makes Rap, by all accounts one of the cutting edges of contemporary music, so vehemently objectionable? All I know is, it must be doing something right... The beat construction, maybe? Polyrhythms, which of course is the starting point for any African-American musical form, have their fullest extension in Hip-Hop today. Is it the production? Because today the edge of musical production lies within suprisingly commerical hip-hop. Oh well, at least one can rest assured that Hip-Hop is the broader musical style and that the non-musical public are simply limiting their scope...

I like most stuff apart from rap. Punk, rock, 60s, a bit of panpipes, you name it.

Of course, sorry for not being rebellious...

	08-04-2002 02:05									#58
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good job, snapcase. Personally, I don't know what to say in favour of rap and hip hop. Living in THE rap city, I don't encounter too many people who don't like rap. Even people who like rock listen to some rap.

but I got a question for yall...

Is R&B music? The beats are just the same as in rap. And R&B singers don't necessarily write notes for their songs. Is that not music?

	08-04-2002 02:06									#59
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Bod, ready for the semi's?

	08-04-2002 02:08									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Snapcase I love Americans and their inability to accept a living language... I'm vaguely wondering what it is about Hip-Hop exactly that drives the non-musical public nuts. It seems that the standard answer for taste-exempted sports stars, TV personalities, etc. in interviews when asked about their music tastes is turns out to be "I litsen to a bit of everything, except Rap". What they mean, of course, is that they litsen to cheese and shite eighties classic rock, but still. What makes Rap, by all accounts one of the cutting edges of contemporary music, so vehemently objectionable? All I know is, it must be doing something right... The beat construction, maybe? Polyrhythms, which of course is the starting point for any African-American musical form, have their fullest extension in Hip-Hop today. Is it the production? Because today the edge of musical production lies within suprisingly commerical hip-hop. Oh well, at least one can rest assured that Hip-Hop is the broader musical style and that the non-musical public are simply limiting their scope...

The answer is quite simple: The majority of famous rappers are complete *******s. Many of them are even borderline racists.

Much of the more famous songs are nothing but profanity and about violence and "gangsta warfare". There is some good rap out there, but it's overshadowed by mountains of crap.

Then there's the "elite" factor of it. If you're white and you listen to rap everyone automatically calls you a "whigger" and you earn the reputation of a poser.

I wouldn't mind rap if there was more of it that was good, rather than preying off the violent youth who like outlets for their anger and dream they're "ganstas".