08-04-2002 22:31									#1
	Cradle questions & bugs Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hex,

The game that triggered these questions is based on Locutus' test game for Succession Game V, so for this one I'm using the 1.2 option. However, I have 1.3 and Victory installed, so you know which files have been overwritten (better than I do, at least). I have not downloaded the 04/08/02 files.

First, a couple of questions: when I got the "do you want to switch govts" (to Tribunal Empire) I got the warning "Some units will be disbanded" but I had no idea which units or how many. By testing--and to my surprise--I discovered that only Elephant Warriors were disbanded.

1) Is there someplace I could have read which units were to be disbanded?

2) If such units are in cities, does the disbanding add to the current project in the build queue?

3) Bug report: I traded my Tribunal Empire tech for Iron Working (while I was still in Oligarchy). I got the upgrade question and said yes. Then I got three sets of "We have 0 0 units..." and absolutely nothing upgraded. I had 5100 gold on hand.

4) Great Library glitches: the GL entry for Dictatorship shows a new unit "Centurion." That link goes to Spearman Militia, and there is no "Centurion" in the GL (that I could find).

-- Hermann

	09-04-2002 00:04									#2
	Re: Cradle questions & bugs Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard Hex, First, a couple of questions: when I got the "do you want to switch govts" (to Tribunal Empire) I got the warning "Some units will be disbanded" but I had no idea which units or how many. By testing--and to my surprise--I discovered that only Elephant Warriors were disbanded.

The following are the Gov-specific units for Cradle
Republic - Pezheteroi
Oligarchy - Elephant Warrior
Dictatorship - Praetorians
Theocracy - Teutonic Knight
Caliphate - Janissary
Fascism - Fascist

These will be disbanded upon changing to another government, so you must have been in an Oligarchy.

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard 1) Is there someplace I could have read which units were to be disbanded?

I'll have to check in the Great Library files and add it to the readme.

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard 2) If such units are in cities, does the disbanding add to the current project in the build queue?

Yes

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard 3) Bug report: I traded my Tribunal Empire tech for Iron Working (while I was still in Oligarchy). I got the upgrade question and said yes. Then I got three sets of "We have 0 0 units..." and absolutely nothing upgraded. I had 5100 gold on hand.

Upgrading is a one-time feature that occurs when you complete research on a particular advance - This is something that Peter (creator of the Upgrader SLIC file) may have to look into because the act of trading for an advance may not trigger the upgrade ability.

I will also get together a list of what advances trigger what upgrades. For now, you can open the CRAG_updater.slc file which will spell out the costs and the advances that will upgrade a unit

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard 4) Great Library glitches: the GL entry for Dictatorship shows a new unit "Centurion." That link goes to Spearman Militia, and there is no "Centurion" in the GL (that I could find).

This was the initial title of the Dictatorship-specific unit (over a year ago, BTW) I must have missed changing this info.

A request from all players,
If there are any other questions about info and the changes in Cradle, players should post them here so I can get together a comprehensive document to cover all the changes that I may have missed. I am going to wait at least 2-3 weeks before posting the next update, at least in regard to these types of changes.

	09-04-2002 21:14									#3
	Remove this text

Thanks for the quick reply. As you observed, I was in Oligarchy. In the future I can plan for this when changing governments; I just didn't know it was going to happen.

It looks like the unit updater code was triggered, but the arguments must have been screwed up because I traded for the tech. "Oh, I didn't need those smelly old legions ANYWAY!"

	10-04-2002 02:18									#4
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Herman,

The CRAG_updater.slc you're using is the original version that would occasionally give you those "We have 0 units" messages. Here's a corrected version that should sort things out:

Attachment: crag_updater.slc
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	10-04-2002 02:20									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Also, if anybody is using a CRA_updater.slc dated from last year, here's the corrected version for it:

Attachment: cra_updater.slc
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).

	11-04-2002 22:48									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs Herman, The CRAG_updater.slc you're using is the original version that would occasionally give you those "We have 0 units" messages. Here's a corrected version that should sort things out:

Thanks, Peter!

I wish I had seen this message before I traded for Hullmaking last night, but we aren't the only ones with bugs. The "unread" flags in the Forum don't seem to work very well. When I came to the Forum today, only the "Mods" side showed a glowing light bulb, and within Mods or Strat, only a few of the 11-04 messages had triggered red icons. That's why I missed your message the last couple of days; today I went looking for the thread manually.

	11-04-2002 22:53									#7
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Another buglet or two:

Last night I had a Diplomat attempt assassination against an enemy city. Caught, dead Diplo, no surprise...but the message box said "Our Eco-Terrorist was intercepted before he could conduct a hit on the city..." Okay, I guess the Cradle action co-opted an Activision action...but then I clicked on the Msgs tab and found "One of our Eco-Terrorists has successfully conducted a hit on a public figure..." followed by another message that duplicated the original message box.

	15-04-2002 23:42									#8
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Another GL item: the Monarchy entry shows requirements of Feudalism and Theology but the Tech Tree tab shows Feudalism and Christianity.

Question: is there any impact of the Conqueror Feat of Wonder?

-- Hermann

p.s. Still having upgrade troubles; just sent PM to Peter about it.

Edit:

Peter pointed out that I might have forgotten to /reloadslic and THIS after we discussed the ritual so extensively in the Succession Game V thread! When I did so, the "0 0" messages went away, but I thought I *still* had a bug because at Dark Ages the only upgrade made was from Legion Militia...so I just went in to cra_updater.slc, and imagine my surprise: only Legion Militia should upgrade. OK, Peter, my apologies!

Last edited by Hermann the Lombard on 16-04-2002 at 06:09

	16-04-2002 20:14									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard Last night I had a Diplomat attempt assassination against an enemy city. Caught, dead Diplo, no surprise...but the message box said "Our Eco-Terrorist was intercepted before he could conduct a hit on the city..."

Message fixed for next update.

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard Another GL item: the Monarchy entry shows requirements of Feudalism and Theology but the Tech Tree tab shows Feudalism and Christianity.

This one has be stumped at the moment.

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard ...so I just went in to cra_updater.slc, and imagine my surprise: only Legion Militia should upgrade.

...Miss an upgrade for Militias in a city and you lose out for the rest of them for that city. Makes preplanning a little more important.

BTW, given the fact that each unit can only have 4 actions (the Diplomat issue raised in the main Cradle thread), which ones do you prefer?

	16-04-2002 21:34									#10
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian This one has be stumped at the moment.

Was I clear and do you need more info?

quote: BTW, given the fact that each unit can only have 4 actions (the Diplomat issue raised in the main Cradle thread), which ones do you prefer?

Um...what are the choices? I just took a quick look through the 1.3 thread and didn't find the discussion, though I remember seeing someone wondering where "throw a party" went.

	16-04-2002 21:50									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs Herman, The CRAG_updater.slc you're using is the original version that would occasionally give you those "We have 0 units" messages. Here's a corrected version that should sort things out:

Peter, you have forced me to put one foot on that slippery slope. I was a bit frustrated at having missed upgrades due to the (now fixed) trading bug. Then I thought to myself well, I can modify cra_updater.slc to catch up a bit over the next few techs by changing the enabling advances. Well, I wouldn't want to conflict with the succession game, and rather than having to swap slic files in and out, I decided to create a specific version and called it craEX_updater.slc. But to use that, I needed to mod craEX_script.slc, then craEX_Strings.txt, then craEX_gamefile.txt, and finally craEX_update_str.txt (to remind me onscreen which update code is in action). So now I have my very own little mod right there among the Modswapper options.

I have crossed that line in the sand; is there no turning back?

	16-04-2002 22:44									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard Was I clear and do you need more info?

Actually, I just figured out what the problem was - I was thinking that the tech tree that shows up in the Great Library was showing Christianity as the prerequisite for Monarchy, but the advance file had been set up for Theology.

Turns out that the Advance file has the wrong prerequesite for Monarchy (it was Christianity but should be Theology). Actually, it can be either way, and I may flip it back.

For now, file fixed for update.

quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard Um...what are the choices? I just took a quick look through the 1.3 thread and didn't find the discussion, though I remember seeing someone wondering where "throw a party" went.

There are now so many threads here to keep track of, that I'm starting to lose track of where everything is being discussed and who is posting what. (...not like a few months ago when you could count the active threads on 2 fingers). It's in the Triggs DiploMod thread, and somebody else was bringing up the question about 'Throwing a Party'

What I decided to do was to remove the ability for Diplomats to plant Nukes - maybe this will open up the slot for 'Throw Parties'

	17-04-2002 03:35									#13
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David:

I think theology would be a better pre-req for monarchy then christianity. Not all "christian" civs used a form of monarchy. Remember that a monarch is classed as God's voice on earth (after the pope if you were Catholic).

	17-04-2002 05:02									#14
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I tend to agree with you Dale, since it was the power of the Medieval Church and the interpretation of Scriptures and tradition (not Christianity as laid out by Christ) that played a role in the establishment of the European Monarchies (at least as they were historically)

However, if the Church wasn't there, Monarchies probably would of been established anyhow in some form.

	17-04-2002 20:30									#15
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian It's in the Triggs DiploMod thread, and somebody else was bringing up the question about 'Throwing a Party' What I decided to do was to remove the ability for Diplomats to plant Nukes - maybe this will open up the slot for 'Throw Parties'

I must say that throwing a party seems more diplomatic than planting a nuke!