27-04-2002 03:32									#31
	hmm Full PM-box? Change here!

Last I had heard it wasn't going to be in it, but this was several months ago. It was going to be you design taskforces based on various thing, then comp fights for you. I never let the comp fight for me in moo2, it was always dumb. But as for it being real-time, how would that make formations better? Real-time stuff always seems to get jumbled and just become a fist fight of the better units(not saying I don't like it, its just i'd perfer tactical combat for moo3). But I dunno, best thing to do is just wait till it comes out and test it, then if its worth it, i'll buy it.

	27-04-2002 12:04									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yeah, the biggest trouble I have with any sort of 'auto' combat is the consistantly dumb AIs.

I like the control. Plus, that's half the game~!

	30-04-2002 01:05									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What you don´t see is: With conventional real time combat, the game will be far too easy. (Everybody can go to slow speed, micromanage everything and win all battles!)

	30-04-2002 01:14									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

And another thing: Without IFPs, how are they going to manage things that were paid for wholly in IFPs, such as: The Speech?

	01-05-2002 02:13									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: And another thing: Without IFPs, how are they going to manage things that were paid for wholly in IFPs, such as: The Speech?

My guess: Events.

	01-05-2002 14:04									#36
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quote: And another thing: Without IFPs, how are they going to manage things that were paid for wholly in IFPs, such as: The Speech?

maybe make it less effective if you also do a lot of other things in your turns?

	03-05-2002 05:23									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy maybe make it less effective if you also do a lot of other things in your turns?

That would be the IFP concept again; only more complicated. If they are planning to do that, why kill IFPs in the first place?

	03-05-2002 05:25									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Straybow My guess: Events.

That would be terrible: Making something a random event that should be a player decision.

Though you may be right; after all, if they fire the lead designer just before completion, nothing would much surprise me any more.

	03-05-2002 05:35									#39
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Geez, people have gone from excited about this game, to fearful that it will be crap. Why don'y you wait and see?

	03-05-2002 16:52									#40
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune That would be the IFP concept again; only more complicated. If they are planning to do that, why kill IFPs in the first place?

Maybe it's killed because it was ARTIFICIAL restriction.

And thus, not FUN. (at least QS said that was reason for removal)

But making someting less effective if overused, instead of simlply restricting it, is much better idea.
HFOG looks like possibile mechanic for that.

	04-05-2002 01:58									#41
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by player1 Maybe it's killed because it was ARTIFICIAL restriction.

It was not an artificial restriction.

You can only do so many things in one day/year/decade/game turn. That´s the most commonsensical restriction I can think of.

	04-05-2002 05:43									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yes. Which is why socialism fails. It is too dependant on command.

	04-05-2002 11:09									#43
	Event driven Speech Support Apolyton

quote: That would be terrible: Making something a random event that should be a player decision.

When an event occurs you have options how to respond. The Speech would be an appropriate option for if the people are uncertain about their direction and motivation.

	11-05-2002 04:12									#44
	Re: hmm Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by ChaotikVisions Last I had heard it wasn't going to be in it, but this was several months ago. It was going to be you design taskforces based on various thing, then comp fights for you.

No, you are completely capable of going toe-to-toe with your enemy in battle. It's playable, ran through a bunch of battles yesterday. Actually *fun*... crazy thought

personally, I can't imagine letting the comp do battles. What's the point?

RE: the dumbing down issue. It should be noted that what's going on is focusing the game on actually having a gameplay experience. If you asked someone 'ok, what do you *do* in MoO2 (or moo1 for that matter) they'd say something like 'I researched technology, I conquered aliens, I ruled the galaxy, etc.'

In the early builds, with IFP and all features in the general reaction was that 'ummm, these are all very good ideas, but I have *no* idea what the hell I am supposed to be doing...'

Ideas are great, and yes it is best to cut non-functional or unclear ideas or concepts early, but unfortunately some ideas/concepts weren't clear on whether it would work or not until it was actually *in* the game as a whole.

Being bombarded by a white noise wall of information with no significance on *any* piece of it isn't a fun game for even the most hardcore strat players. Heirarchy of importance and impact is essential for the player to have feedback ( both positive and negative) on the results of their actions.

IFP removed a LOT of that, and for no good reason. The micromanagement nightmare of middle and late game can be handled in other ways and it KILLED the early game.

Ok, I'm rambling and I have to get back to it. No matter what vine-borne fruit of a tangy nature is offered, what we are doing is making a better game.

	11-05-2002 15:02									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

hey, how come Rantz hasn't got a subtitle saying he's from the MOO3 team?

	14-05-2002 00:26									#46
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by player1 Maybe it's killed because it was ARTIFICIAL restriction. And thus, not FUN. (at least QS said that was reason for removal)

I'll consider Rantz' response, but dude, I do not get your logic. Everything fun in games is artificial. Artificial restrictions are a piece of what makes games fun.

What was compelling about the idea of IFP's was that it suggested the game would play significantly differently than others of its type. Admittedly, we'll have to see, although I am burned out by repeated dissapointments in this genre.

If it wasn't working, hey I can understand it needs to be cut and reworked. But also understand that I am bored to poop of micromanaging giant empires. I also am tired of the feeling that I need to micromanage -- when the gameplay efficiency between micromanaging and not micromanaging is really big. If anything the gamespot preview made me skeptical.

But I will wait and see.

-mario

	14-05-2002 01:12									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Lemmy hey, how come Rantz hasn't got a subtitle saying he's from the MOO3 team?

Maybe because he's proud to be working for a specific company that's making a specific game and not the other way around.

There is a slight difference. mainly that even if a game is phenominal, it'll usually only be a one time thing, but if a company continually makes block-busters they (the company) have a lot more to be proud of.

	14-05-2002 01:26									#48
	Got spare money?

I'll bet it's 'cause he signed on Friday and Mark hasn't given him one yet.

	14-05-2002 03:21									#49
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by madmario But also understand that I am bored to poop of micromanaging giant empires. I also am tired of the feeling that I need to micromanage

as are we. Not that I'm lazy mind you, I'd just rather the game stay interesting and engaging, and personally there gets to be a point where worrying about some tiny colony in my vast empire gets to be a burden.

So, yeah, I'd agree with that.

	15-05-2002 05:30									#50
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Rantz Not that I'm lazy mind you, I'd just rather the game stay interesting and engaging, and personally there gets to be a point where worrying about some tiny colony in my vast empire gets to be a burden.

Exactly.

-m

	17-05-2002 06:44									#51
	Hey, I resemble that remark! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"Not that I'm lazy mind you, I'd just rather the game stay interesting and engaging…" —Rantz

When it comes to playing games I am lazy, often as not. I play for a serious challenge some of the time, but for fun most of the time. If they've figured out a way to reward us for not µmanaging I'm for it. IFP was one way, now they've hidden the mechanics and made the game more transparent, IIRC.