10-04-2002 01:55									#1
	Announced revisions to Moo3 Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hot off the presses and straight from the source, it's Mooian, bottled spring Revisions:

"So folks, here’s the update as planned. As something to keep in mind; let me again stress why we’re making these changes. The great majority of these are to systems that are already in place and working. We’re making these changes not to save us time (because it won’t) but to ensure that the game is fun. We’ve approached each of these items with a few things in mind: Does the feature add value to the product or is it just one more option for the sake of having an option? Does the feature enhance the core of the 5X strategy game that we’re trying to make? Is this feature forcing multiple steps where otherwise they would not be needed? Does this feature take away control from the player? Does it keep the player from having to micromanage? Is the feature confusing? Is the feature fun?

So, with that in mind here’s da list.

Creating Task forces

Sectors were removed so you now create task forces at deployment centers. These are big expensive system buildings, which act the same way as sector seats did. When you select a system that has a deployment center one of the options is to create a new task force which then forms in that location. The main reason for the change was that from a UI perspective Sectors were confusing and deployment centers give us the same rally points from reserves without that confusion. Also it saves you a step in creating task forces since they appear where you created them and you don’t have to give them an additional ‘deploy here’ order.

Creating Ground Forces

Works in a similar manner as task forces, created at the planet.

Technology

Technology is being changed back down to one step. You’ll adjust your RP’s (sliders) spent in the various schools as planned but once projects are available they will automatically become a research project and your scientists will try to make it a reality. Projects can still hit project overruns like they could before. The big difference is that the applied part of technology will now be automatic. On this one we found that while the current tech system is really cool, it basically created 3 steps where before there was only 1. What it added was the ability to add in overruns, delay when technologies are available to be used etc. Most of that still applies under this new model, it’s just much easier to use.

Ship AI

By default the AI will try to keep the reserves stocked so that you’ll have the ships to work with. It will not however take those ships out of the reserves to create new task forces or move your task forces without your knowledge. Right now the AI moves all your taskforces and it gets really annoying trying to catch your ships or figure out what they’re doing. Figuring out where specific ships get built and worrying about defending a specific system will still be handled by the AI (ie, you will not have to micromanage), . Your concentration will be on the larger scope issues like who am I going to attack next. We’re currently evaluating if any of these AI controls will have an option to turn on and we’ll let you know as soon as we make that decision.

Each Planet will have an option to turn off its AI. This will be a planet-by-planet option so if you’d like to control your head planet and let the others run auto you’ll have that freedom.

No other changes are planned for the AI at this time other than improvements etc.

X’s

The X’s are going to be changing slightly. We’re going to be adding a few items to planetary specials to add more of a story element. For example, you might discover the ruins of the Darlok homeworld on a planet you’ve discovered (probably marked by some type of guardian). In the ruins you could find one of the lost X’s or you might find information that implies the Darloks had one of them before they escaped out of our galaxy. This would give you a roadmap so that the next you send off an antaran expedition they’re not exploring completely blind but have a better chance of discovering something. One other change we’re making here is that there can be only 5 X’s discovered in the game. So if you’ve discovered an X other players cannot find that same one. To get it they would need to trade, steal, or kill you.

Victory Conditions

The current victory conditions are: Sole Survivor, Orion President, Discover the 5 X’s. We removed Sole Superpower because at that stage in the game you could easily win by getting into the senate and just voting yourself president. We also removed Heir to the Throne because from a gameplay mechanic it works pretty much the same way as Orion President.

Population Migration

We’re turning off ‘normal’ migration between planets and making it so that they’ll only migrate through population growth and revolt. In implementation it’s very tough to tell as a when your population leaves, where they’ve gone and why. The big reason for this item was so that you weren’t forced to micromanage colonization and so that you didn’t have to move your people when planets get full. By keeping migration to the very visual items (Revolt) and normal population growth it still means you won’t have to micromanage and you’ll see very clearly if there is a problem. Occasionally you'll also have planets popup under your control when your population finds a juicy planet.

Exploration

A couple of minor changes here. In the interest of keeping things clear to the user there will be 1 stage of exploration on a system (similar to the previous games), it was simply too tough to tell how long your ships needed to hang around a system to explore each planet. Also the starlanes will become viewable and usable by you once you enter the system, not before. So while you’ll see all the stars, you won’t know the routes to them until you’ve gone to adjoining stars. Should cause a nice bit of exploring necessary as the game progresses.

Orion Senate

I’m not sure what here has been announced or not so I’ll just go over what it currently does. There are two types of laws that can come up, here I’ll call them normal laws and special laws. The normal laws are things like letting player X in the senate, creating an embargo, declaring war etc. Those are proposed by the player or AI’s and then voted on. The special ones coming up randomly and consist of things like ‘Pollution: Galactic pollution is getting out of control, all members must decrease production by 10%’. The special laws are still voted on by the senate, it’s just that they’re not proposed by senate members.

Diplomacy

Diplomacy AI will be turned off for the player. You’ll need to handle your diplomatic messages just as you did in previous versions. We are currently evaluating the rest of diplomacy to make sure that all the options do in fact add value to the product. Most the code for these is done so if items are removed it’ll only be in order to make sure that the product is fun.

Spies

We’ve adjusted it so that you build one type of spy. That spy can still be sent on a variety of missions that are the same as what was announced previously. The only spy missions that have been removed are ones that reported back nothing but information on the other empire (the information coming back wasn’t very useful). Instead we’ve bumped up the effective spy missions such as stealing tech’s, killing leaders, sabotaging projects, blowing up buildings, affecting planets etc. Everything else in spies works the same as has been discussed previously.

Forced Labor

The Forced Labor and Robotic Unit policies are being adjusted slightly. Originally you had about 6 policies that affected them and it was enough that it was difficult to tell the results. Now you’ll end up with just a couple of policies that will be much clearer in their effect.

Leaders Changing

Before, you had leaders in every position in the empire and some would have faces etc. Once this went in we found that it was really difficult to find the ones you cared about and each individual one wasn’t very unique. So, the leaders that you know of are being moved into the background (they still do their thing but are of the faceless variety) and a new set is being introduced. These will be your High Council and will affect your empire as a whole. They will have modifiers (both good and bad) and will be introduced based on events etc similar to the way it was handled in MOOII. The difference is that there will be more of them (compared to previous games) and they’ll each have much more in the way of story associated with them, which will work into the backstory. Also these leaders will be killable by enemy spies.

Economy

The economic system is currently being evaluated. The concern we have right now is that you end up building multiple copies of the same building on any given planet and it gets confusing in gameplay. We haven’t made a decision on what we’re going to do yet but there are a lot of options on the table and many of them don’t change the current system but just affect how it’s displayed to the user. We’ll let you know as soon as we make a determination.

IFP removal

Yes, as many have heard IFP’s have been removed. The intent behind MOOIII has always been that the player isn’t forced to deal with all the micromanagement if he doesn’t want to. IFP’s did serve to keep the player from micromanaging; they didn’t however solve the problem of making sure the player didn’t have to (or feel he needed to). The only thing that will do that is good AI and our dedication to that hasn’t changed. With the extended date our AI programmers are staying on that task to make sure the AI works as planned. Folks have also asked how this affects HFOG. The answer is it won’t. IFP’s were one of things that affected the HFOG, but there are a lot of other factors that will do that as well and those haven’t changed. The other purpose of IFP’s was to keep multiplayer games moving, but as you can well imagine there are a lot of other ways to do that.

The rest of the changes are UI changes here and there or have been previously announced.

READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY PLEASE!!!!

As you can imagine this message is likely to cause a lot of threads. So if you have questions, feel I missed anything etc please ask on this thread. If you have comments, rant’s, clarifications etc please try to keep on another thread. Hopefully this will allow me to answer everyone’s questions and I’ll get to the rest as time permits. Thanks.

Insert some official person here.

Cory Nelson, Producer
Quicksilver Software, Inc."

	10-04-2002 02:04									#2
	Follow up. Put an end to popups!

The original thread is here should you wish to opine.

	10-04-2002 02:16									#3
	Re: Follow up. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Sencho The original thread is here should you wish to opine.

It's good to have Sencho back to give us the newest informations as soon as possibile.

	10-04-2002 02:42									#4
	Support Apolyton

A few comments. If I don't address something, it means I didn't have anything terribly worthwhile to say.

Task Forces: knew about this one ahead of time, and it was a "shrug" item. It does simplify a couple things, so no biggie.

Technology: in other words, the player loses choices over what he wants to invest in, or when. The old system allowed you to bypass items you didn't want, or delay research so you could lessen the risk of roadblocks. A simple case of "dumbing down" the system.

Ship AI: some improvements were needed here, though the full management load is now put back on the player. Probably a wash, all things considered.

Population migration: I'll have to see this to believe it. Your population just became more brain-dead and subject to your whims, so I suppose that'll please a lot of players, however.

Exploration: Probably an improvement, but the old system was still lots neater.

Orion Senate: Just be glad that you never got to see the details of the original, so you'll never know what's missing.

Diplomacy AI: just as the ship AI, putting all decisions back in the player's hands. An inevitable byproduct of axing IFP.

Spies: the old way was neat, but messy. This one I knew about, and wasn't worried over.

Leaders: dumbing down the system. Should make those who liked the MOO2 way much happier, though. We'll just have to wait and see whether the promised new small bunch of leaders is worth being interested in, or if they're just as bland as the larger bunch supposedly was.

Economy: I have a good hunch what'll be coming down the pike here, and it may well be an improvement gamewise though it's going to make worlds have a higher degree of sameness. Less detail, more bland, but more easily dealt with by the average player.

IFP: still a main factor in making MOO3 a 5X game. Welcome back to 4X, especially in combination with some of the other things. Those who love micromanagement will be ecstatic; those who hate it lose one thing that would've set MOO3 apart from any other similar game. It does take a lot of pressure off the AI, though.
At this point, while there are a few improvements, I also see a creeping blandness in the gameplay. I've got no guarantee that my tastes match anyone else's, so I'm sure opinions will vary.

	10-04-2002 02:54									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: [SIZE=1] I've got no guarantee that my tastes match anyone else's, so I'm sure opinions will vary.

Long time no see, Stormy. However, I just thought I'd give my opinion. I'm ecstatic. I don't know how "hardcore" you are, but the ONLY change that sort of bothered me was the one to research. However, unless I'm mistaken, it seems that MOO3's research model is still lightyears ahead of the competition. I think it's nice, though, in some ways, as it takes away annoying babysitting of your empire research. I'm happy.

As for IFP's, I'm still convinced they weren't going to work. You are entitled to your own opinion and, as you said, you have your own tastes.

My tastes just happen to coincide more with the average gamer. I don't like games that force me to have a Masters in 3 different fields to play. This is why I still play MOO2. It was easy to play and you actually felt like you were doing something (except in the very early game). At any rate, I'm happy about these changes and I think MOO3 will be a better GAME for it.

Edit: Oh, I meant to disagree with you about the "creeping blandness in gameplay." I think the changes actually make it so the average person can identify the gameplay in the game. I think it will be tons of fun (just like MOO2.)

	10-04-2002 03:08									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

To me all chages are OK.

I am only worring micromanaging.
Nothing is said about some way to discourage micromanaging.

And good AI is not a way to discourage micromanaging.
It never worked before.
And good players alway micromange since that way they get edge over AI.

	10-04-2002 05:16									#7
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Stormhound

[QOUTE]Technology: in other words, the player loses choices over what he wants to invest in, or when. The old system allowed you to bypass items you didn't want, or delay research so you could lessen the risk of roadblocks. A simple case of "dumbing down" the system.[/QUOTE]

This one I will agree with you on. I prefered the idea of applied research, essentially only getting what you reall wanted.

quote: Population migration: I'll have to see this to believe it. Your population just became more brain-dead and subject to your whims, so I suppose that'll please a lot of players, however.

Well I think the point your missing, and it seems the main point of all of this, is that they are changing things that the player could not easily detect as doing something, or changing as a result of their own actions.

quote: Exploration: Probably an improvement, but the old system was still lots neater.

Have to agree in part, mainly what he said they removed sounded like it could be interesting. Still if turns really are nearly 2 years in length it should be easy to explore a system using just one.

quote: Orion Senate: Just be glad that you never got to see the details of the original, so you'll never know what's missing.

Guess we don't. Maybe we will get told what left.

quote: Diplomacy AI: just as the ship AI, putting all decisions back in the player's hands. An inevitable byproduct of axing IFP.

No I don't think so. It is in OUR control now. Are you saying that IFPs took it away from us? If so they needed to be gone.

quote: Leaders: dumbing down the system. Should make those who liked the MOO2 way much happier, though. We'll just have to wait and see whether the promised new small bunch of leaders is worth being interested in, or if they're just as bland as the larger bunch supposedly was.

Now I disagree here. We still will have our planetary leaders, just now we have the "original idea" redone as "high council" . This allows easier management of what leaders a player has. Hell, I would not want to remember were "Billy Bob Bad Ass Governor" was.... Now I know that the important people of my Empire are easy to find. Hopefully they will be better than the silly advisors from Civ days.

quote: Economy: I have a good hunch what'll be coming down the pike here, and it may well be an improvement gamewise though it's going to make worlds have a higher degree of sameness. Less detail, more bland, but more easily dealt with by the average player.

My only concern is, it seems counter to the whole anti-micromanagement crowd (not the change, but the previous model). It almost seems if many tried to design a system that was to complext to MM and therefor forced the player to accept not being able to. For all the screams of "we will be forced to MM" it damn well sounds like it was far worse before... or even more dreaded - clutter without control.


[/QUOTE]IFP: still a main factor in making MOO3 a 5X game. Welcome back to 4X, especially in combination with some of the other things. Those who love micromanagement will be ecstatic; those who hate it lose one thing that would've set MOO3 apart from any other similar game.[/QUOTE]

Explain to me just how IFPs took a load off the player? More like "held a gun to his head" and said "you cannot do that" is what it was. If the AI for the product is as good as people claim it was (after all, all the amazing IFPs are great always claim the AI can do it, but as soon as they yank IFPs the same people claim the AI won't be able to do it - - MAKE A FREAKING CHOICE)



Honestly you whine to much. Your as fixated on the dropping of IFPs being bad as I am on it being a good thing. The problem is that I don't flip my argument about the AI... if its good enough to work under an IFP system its damn well good enough to work without it.

the 5-X was about the story, not the damn IFPs

	10-04-2002 05:43									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: "Honestly you whine to much. Your as fixated on the dropping of IFPs being bad as I am on it being a good thing. The problem is that I don't flip my argument about the AI... if its good enough to work under an IFP system its damn well good enough to work without it. the 5-X was about the story, not the damn IFPs"

You know, this is both rude and ironic. Rude because of your total disregard for other opinions and feelings, ironic because you're whining about someone else's perceived whine.

	10-04-2002 13:40									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It's interesting that Stormhound is most pessimistic about chages in this boards.
Does he know something else what we don't know?

	10-04-2002 17:12									#10
	Got spare money?

Some people don't get irony, Sencho. Or politeness. Fortunately, there are ways of dealing with that.

Regarding IFP and the AI:

There is a difference between "couldn't make it work" and "couldn't be bothered to make it work." I know which I believe to be the case, given some of the internal QSI/IG comments.

The AI gets off more easily without IFP, because there is no longer any reason to have to trust it...players can check and change anything, any turn. The number of decisions the AI must make is being reduced. So the AI isn't going to have to be anywhere near as good as it was before, and the only major element that will still require a seriously good AI is space combat. And obviously the AI *wasn't* yet good enough to work under the IFP system, or else there wouldn't have been problems to be corrected with (for example) the task forces. Given a choice between making the AI good enough and abandoning the concept, abandonment was the choice. I remember the discussion, because it was held over two months ago and I was party to it...which I think gives me a better perspective than pretty much anyone else here. The second IFP proposal that was partly explained on the Delphi board was an attempt by the design team to salvage IFP, but it was ultimately futile.

Apoc: Games that force you to have a Masters in 3 different fields to play? I detect straw, as I've never seen such a game (nor was MOO3 designed as one). Nor do I consider myself a "hard core" gamer...especially compared to the ones I see around here...but one man's "choice" is another man's "babysitting." I'd rather have more choices, even if it means I have to take a little more responsibility for managing them. Choices are the essence of strategy.

I disagree with some of the decisions that are being made about the game, and agree with others...but the balance currently leans toward "disagree".

	10-04-2002 17:31									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm going to have to amend a prior statement. Based on what's in the Q&A thread, the research model has not just been dumbed down, but lobotomized.

Functionally, it's now the MOO1 model again with a few cute wrinkles and renamed bits. (Fundamental research is equivalent to the base funding you had to put in, while applied is now equivalent to the random chance per turn of getting the project.) While I liked that model better than the MOO2 model, that doesn't mean we didn't need some progress.
But hey, retro is in fashion again, right?

	10-04-2002 22:19									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I hate like the new leader system and the migration model now sucks.This is game had great potential but for various reasons it looking more and more like imperium galactica2 or moo2.1, lack of depth but nice graphics.

	11-04-2002 02:59									#13
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by WashuMasaki Honestly you whine to much. Your as fixated on the dropping of IFPs being bad as I am on it being a good thing.

I fail to see how your opinion on the matter is superior to Stormhound's.

	11-04-2002 12:20									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Diplomacy AI: just as the ship AI, putting all decisions back in the player's hands. An inevitable byproduct of axing IFP

Diplomacy was run by the AI? Ahhhhhhhh! I can see making people pay IPF to do Diplomacy, yes, so that if you're really busy on the diplomatic front you're automatically spending less time ordering things around on the ground, but did the AI actually do some diplomacy on its own? This seems like a terrible idea... I don't want the AI sweetening up for a peace treaty the empire I'm planning on invading! I'm GLAD this went to manual.

Re the Orion Senate: Glad as in glad we wouldn't have to even know the horror, or glad as in not knowing the pain of missing it?

Anyway, it's too bad these changes, but if they don't have the AI to support a complex game, I'm all in favor of them... I'd rather have a good game done well than a great game done medicorely. And never mind laziness, I respect the need of QS to actually turn a profit, so if they didn't have the AI up to snuff now, I can see why they needed to make things easier to get things to work. Who knows, presumably they aren't throwing the code away... Moo3 expansion, anybody?

	11-04-2002 14:30									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I´m soooooo happy about those changes.
Finally I can dig myself into mountains of Micromanagement again ignoring all those "unfun" aspects like research & combat.

Seriously, looking at the changes now, the probability that I gonna buy MoO 3 have dropped even further - after IFP the research system was still one of the more intresting parts - great now I am "allowed" to research doomvirus & soil enrichment - who would want to skip those two to "antivirus" or medicine, just cuz an enemy fleet with Bio-terminators is on the way.

Geez - as things look I´ll probably download the game first and then MAYBE buy it - sorry Stormhound

	11-04-2002 20:13									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I have no problem with any of the changes, except Research. It would seem that now we are forced to research everything, even things we don't want. Definitely not good.

	11-04-2002 20:45									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

With IFP's removed, QS is hopefully at least coming up with serious disincentives/penalties for micro-managing. Increased HFOG would be a possibility.

	11-04-2002 23:13									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by lockstep With IFP's removed, QS is hopefully at least coming up with serious disincentives/penalties for micro-managing. Increased HFOG would be a possibility.

Huh, Civ 3 tried something like that: the city Governors!

	11-04-2002 23:45									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, in Civ3 I never noticed a penalty for NOT using governors.

	14-04-2002 03:47									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Let's just hope they're not simplifying too much an ambitious game, but I'm more aware of how fast a system the user will need in order to run properly a micromanaged game in a huge galaxy of 10000 colonies...

	14-04-2002 08:43									#21
	Tired of ads?

quote: [SIZE=1] There is a difference between "couldn't make it work" and "couldn't be bothered to make it work."

I'd put my money on it too, since it's a general model of things in the hobby. I mean, it's all complex, with money and all, but yeah.

I'm starting to think, "I already have SE.IV."

-mario

	18-04-2002 02:14									#22
	Tired of ads?

Ohhh...
I am devastated. The research system was my favorite part of the game. Why they kill it? They think we have not enough brain to understand what we want from it? I hope they leave the original research system code and we can somehow hacking back.

Blade

	18-04-2002 10:23									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Stormhound I'm going to have to amend a prior statement. Based on what's in the Q&A thread, the research model has not just been dumbed down, but lobotomized. Functionally, it's now the MOO1 model again with a few cute wrinkles and renamed bits. (Fundamental research is equivalent to the base funding you had to put in, while applied is now equivalent to the random chance per turn of getting the project.) While I liked that model better than the MOO2 model, that doesn't mean we didn't need some progress. But hey, retro is in fashion again, right?

I detect an HFOIG (Heavy Foot Of Infogrames). If IG is so bound and determined to lobotomize great strategy games, why not just release them for the X-Box or PS2? What "average gamer" are they aiming for? 10 year old Diablo 2 vets with an attention span comparable to pro athletes' 40 yard dash times? It seems to me that IG won't stop until they hit the Great Strategy Game Carnal Canine Trifecta, in other words screwing the pooch on Civ 3, Moo 3 and MOM 2. Then they'll wonder why no one is buying MOO 4, Civ 4 and MOM 3, only to realize too late that the "average gamers" they're aiming for will have grown up and gone on to bigger and better things, and the "hardcore" fanbase will have long evaporated, disgusted at the dumbing down of their favorite game.

Thanks for the analysis Stormhound.

	20-04-2002 04:58									#24
	Remove this text

"will have grown up and gone on to bigger and better things"

I visited the Europa Universalis site yesterday. They are selling EU2 these days and they sure didn't aim to mainstream to please the 'average player' who could be 'scared' by too much information.

MORE complexity, MORE scope, MORE options, LONGER !
Too bad I already own EU.
Bah, I can wait and my money for MOO3 will probably go to EU2 then!

	22-04-2002 23:33									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

IFPs were a mistake in the first place. They limited people ability to play a game as if it was a jail .

	23-04-2002 23:36									#26
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Stormhound A few comments. If I don't address something, it means I didn't have anything terribly worthwhile to say. Task Forces: knew about this one ahead of time, and it was a "shrug" item. It does simplify a couple things, so no biggie. Technology: in other words, the player loses choices over what he wants to invest in, or when. The old system allowed you to bypass items you didn't want, or delay research so you could lessen the risk of roadblocks. A simple case of "dumbing down" the system. Ship AI: some improvements were needed here, though the full management load is now put back on the player. Probably a wash, all things considered. Population migration: I'll have to see this to believe it. Your population just became more brain-dead and subject to your whims, so I suppose that'll please a lot of players, however. Exploration: Probably an improvement, but the old system was still lots neater. Orion Senate: Just be glad that you never got to see the details of the original, so you'll never know what's missing. Diplomacy AI: just as the ship AI, putting all decisions back in the player's hands. An inevitable byproduct of axing IFP. Spies: the old way was neat, but messy. This one I knew about, and wasn't worried over. Leaders: dumbing down the system. Should make those who liked the MOO2 way much happier, though. We'll just have to wait and see whether the promised new small bunch of leaders is worth being interested in, or if they're just as bland as the larger bunch supposedly was. Economy: I have a good hunch what'll be coming down the pike here, and it may well be an improvement gamewise though it's going to make worlds have a higher degree of sameness. Less detail, more bland, but more easily dealt with by the average player. IFP: still a main factor in making MOO3 a 5X game. Welcome back to 4X, especially in combination with some of the other things. Those who love micromanagement will be ecstatic; those who hate it lose one thing that would've set MOO3 apart from any other similar game. It does take a lot of pressure off the AI, though. At this point, while there are a few improvements, I also see a creeping blandness in the gameplay. I've got no guarantee that my tastes match anyone else's, so I'm sure opinions will vary.

I am simply smashed about this. Deleting IFPs basically ruins the game for me. Of all the innovations, this one clearly was the most important. An ingenious way to reduce micromanagament AND increase realism.

All the other changes go into a similar direction: To make the game more 'mainstream' and less interesting -CivIII Plague strikes again!

To end on a positive tone: You, Stormhound, are sure the most sincere game developer in history, admitting all those things above. And that at least is to the credit of QS as well: At Firaxis they would chop the head off any developer telling the truth so bluntly!

Edit: I just read on another thread you DID get axed, or something. And they showed the door to Alan Emrich, too. Have they gone mad?

	24-04-2002 00:07									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yeah, but those comments also got posted after I got laid off by QS...so it's not like I was risking my job.

To be truly honest, I probably wouldn't have posted a critique while still employed; on the other hand, I wouldn't have rushed to defend any changes I didn't like, either. I find that conspicuous silence can do an admirable job of expressing my opinion at times...just as it's going to do for the remaining months until the game's release, since my recent "friendly call" from IG.

	26-04-2002 01:14									#28
	hmm Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The more and more I hear about MOO3 to more it sounds like it isn't going to be that great. First they take out tactical combat(one of my favorite parts of the game), now all this. I never played MOO2 envisioning myself as some grand galactic leader with somewhat control over his empire. I played it as everyone running the empire, albeit all focused on a single purpose. I'll probably just stick to playing Civ3, even though it isn't on a grand a scale as MOO3, its still fun. (and better since the latest patch, too) I never understand why companies rush games or dumb them down alot for people, its just going to hurt who was planning on buying them in the first place. Rather then appeal to new audiences or make them more money.

	26-04-2002 01:23									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

No tactical combat??!?!

What is going to replace it? Strategic/automatic? RUBBISHAH!!


FWA-kaka!

	26-04-2002 19:44									#30
	Re: hmm Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by ChaotikVisions First they take out tactical combat(one of my favorite parts of the game)

Uh, tactical combat is still very much IN moo3, albeit real-time instead of turn-based. On a related note, I'm one of the people all FOR real-time vs. turn based, since it makes things like formations useful, allows the number of ships on each side to be considerably higher, and just feels more realistic.