11-04-2002 03:06									#31
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I have an idea. Let's all start chasing our tails in a clock-wise direction. If there are enough of us, and if we go fast enough, perhaps we can effect the passage of time and accelerate the release of the next patch and the expansion with MP. At the very least we wouldn't be flaming each other over mixups and mis-statements.

	11-04-2002 03:11									#32
	Tired of ads?

Just how fast would this tail-chasing have to be? At my age it could be dangerous!

	11-04-2002 03:15									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, given relative mass, acceleration, the friction coefficient and the angle of the sun at Noon in the Northern Hemisphere...

42

Assuming of course that we don't lose any participants to spontaneous combustion.

	11-04-2002 20:04									#34
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quote: Even before espionage, a civ can spy on your city ("investigate") and see what you are building and when it's due. All that's needed is an embassy in your capital build by him, or an embassy build by you in his capital.

Huh, what are the step-by-step directions on how to do this? I have always had to wait for espionage. It sounds like once you have communication with another civ you can see what each city is building. Is this accurate?

	11-04-2002 20:15									#35
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Huh, what are the step-by-step directions on how to do this? I have always had to wait for espionage. It sounds like once you have communication with another civ you can see what each city is building. Is this accurate?

1. Make contact with a civ
2. Develop "writing"
3. Establish an embassy -> you'll see the city view the foreign capital
4. Conduct espionage (E button on the bottom right of the screen).
5. Chose the civ you want to spy on (and you have an embassy in)
6. Chose "investigate city"
7. Pick a city, and you'll see it's city view, including what it's building and how long it will take for them to finish it.

It also works if a civ establish an embassy in your capital. Embassies always work both ways, and thus allows two way espionage (even before "espionage" is developed).

	11-04-2002 21:28									#36
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Since the AI always knows how strong the defensive forces are in your cities it would not surprise me to be told it also knows what you are building and how long it will take without indulging in espionage. Provided it does not cheat in order to complete its wonder, i.e. it actually spends the right number of shields or a GL, I really don't care.

v1.00 was more fun with its ability to construct multiple palaces though. On occasions I was actually using this to walk my capital across the map, knowing the semi-corrupt city would complete long before the almost totally corrupt one would. Managing your palace completion dates to coincide with a new wonder coming available so you could build that instead was fun too

	11-04-2002 21:34									#37
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thanks for the step-by-step.

Follow up question--what if don't establish an embassy just when writing is obtained. How do you establish an embassy later in game?

I don't know if it is good plan or not, but I don't create an embassy when I get writing because I am too close to AI civ and don't want to make their encroachment any easier.

	12-04-2002 09:42									#38
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall Follow up question--what if don't establish an embassy just when writing is obtained. How do you establish an embassy later in game?

Ctrl-E, a list of civs you have not yet established embassies with will appear along with the cost in gold.

	12-04-2002 11:57									#39
	Got spare money?

Yes, militaristic civ's are always behind on culture, so they will usually get a GL easier and I know Rome will use it to build a wonder.
Usually I try and have two tech while building a wonder, so I can switch the the other wonder if I need to. I skip some of the lower ones and go right for one I might want. It seems to take long to go up the ladder of techs first, but then the other techs take less turns, that is part of the stradegy of playing the game now.

At first it use to happen in Civ II also, until one got to a point of tweaking the city for maximum production and using a city that has production in the first place.

I think you will think of something to build the wonder first, and that's always been part of the game. I have also had it happen to me, so a good spot for a high production city also comes in handy. And a GL will also help.

	12-04-2002 15:51									#40
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@SpencerH

IMO thats just bad luck.

Take it like a man, you cant have all wonders. This civ was stupid enough to give you a tech that gives you a wonder that hasnt been built. Maybe the AI got its error and quickly rushed that wonder
Or it gave you the Wonder in the hope that you pay a very high price for it while already planning to rush it once someone bought it.
Would be very clever IMO.


You cant build one of the wonders anymore. That makes the game just more of a challenge, right? And challenging games is all we want.

If you dont like challenging games play on Chieftain.
I had some really challenging games on Warlord already.
Okay maybe I am a bad player. But at least I dont complain that much in a public forum when the AI builds up all my wonders (booohooo).
I suggest you play on and try to do your best. You can win afterall.

ata

	12-04-2002 16:40									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa @SpencerH IMO thats just bad luck. Take it like a man, you cant have all wonders. ata

I wasnt going to rehash all this, but perhaps I wasnt clear.

I dont care about not building a wonder. I can win without building any of them (which suggests they are not as important as in civ2 for my game anyway) all the way up to deity. OK.

I was merely replying to the post that started this thread, and my opinion about the AI's knowledge of what wonders were being built. I mistakenly believed it to be a cheat (since I dont bother with looking at the F7 (not F8) screen), but its not a cheat since I have the same info.

I do still think that its a bug though. I checked, once you have any contact with a civ you can know what wonders they're building. You dont need an embassy, you dont need to pay for each city you investigate (with an embassy) in order to have this info. For me thats a bug.

As for the comment about the use of espionage to gain knowledge of whats being built.

There are many posts citing the AI's uncanny ability to go straight for an undefended city, to found cities on sites of as yet undiscovered resources, and to build wonders "just" before the human player. The AI knows what units are in what cities and what is being built in every city (seemingly every turn).

Even after embassies, that allow the AI to gather such info by the rules with "investigate city", does anyone think that the AI pays out substantial sums of gold each turn to look in all other cities? I dont think so.

My conclusion is that the AI' s knowledge is not seperate from the games.

As for whether its a cheat or a bug or not I dont care, its too easy to beat the game anyway. I'm looking forward to MP.

	12-04-2002 17:51									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa @SpencerH Maybe the AI got its error and quickly rushed that wonder Or it gave you the Wonder in the hope that you pay a very high price for it while already planning to rush it once someone bought it. Would be very clever IMO.

Gee, it sure would! Have you actually played this game? Or do you just pretend to play on warlord?

quote: If you dont like challenging games play on Chieftain. I had some really challenging games on Warlord already. Okay maybe I am a bad player. But at least I dont complain that much in a public forum when the AI builds up all my wonders (booohooo). I suggest you play on and try to do your best. You can win afterall. ata

I'm amazed by the snide comments made by those who dont bother to read the posts. Even Spectators' was based upon his reading the posts.

I think you know my answer (but then since you dont bother to read the posts maybe you dont).

	12-04-2002 20:52									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Thank you for the espionage help. May slow down game play, but also could help. I will try next game using espionage and see what that is like. {also found the answer in the online help, feeling like a dummy for asking,
[std tech answer: RTFM]. Will be interesting to see what game is like using spies and espionage.}

Again, thanks.

	13-04-2002 00:28									#44
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm going to try the espionage strategy now. In my case, however, the Germans were never in a war so could not have produced a GL that I wasn't aware of. I didn't even know the F keys existed in Civ3, obviously they did in Civ2.. this is another example of the bad user interface. Things like this, the espionage button, the build embassy button... so terribly designed it's pathetic. I would have just preferred a tool menu up above...