11-04-2002 01:45									#1
	Greetings Support Apolyton

Hi all. As the name suggests, I am a refugee from the defunct (but excellent) UK mag PC Strategy Games. I have been looking for a decent board for a while (and hopefully I've found one at last). I'm currently playing EU2..as Scotland of course.. and getting a serious kicking from the English(no surprises there then) so any tips on how to handle The Auld Enemy would be greatly appreciated. I'm also hopelessly addicted to Space Empires IV which should keep me going until the release of MOO3. Finally, to Grumbold: I am the poster formerlly Known as Ken (name already taken here).
Hope to have some interesting discussions with you all

	11-04-2002 02:36									#2
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Howdy Refugee!

My recommendation with England would be to hit 'em hard and hit 'em early. If possible, ally yourself with the French....yeah, it'll drag you into some wars with Spain, but so what? The Spanish are nothing to you, really, and they're not in much of a position to cause you harm. 'sides, when the Frenchies attack (and they will), England's forces will be torn between two fronts, and that gives you the edge.

Adopt "smother and siege" tactics to keep them unable to recruit in the northern provinces....do this by creating one wampum big attack force (large enough to fend off a determined English counter attack) and create a secondary force (mostly infantry) that you can use to lead the attack with....the plan is thus:

1) Use your main attack force to drive off whatever garrison the English have guarding their northern border. Having done that, reinforce your main battle group as needed and strike as far south as you wanna go for your first war with England (don't try to eat them all in one bite....take 3-4 provs and make peace...that'll put you on par with them, size wise, and you'll be able to hold your own much more easily after your first war).

2) March the main force in behind enemy lines as far south as you wanna go, and lay siege to that territory. While that force is moving, march your infantry reserve into the territories your main force is going through, and detach a covering force before moving on to the next territory you eventually wanna capture. Covering forces leave just enough troops in an enemy territory to prevent recruitment of troops behind you.

3) Once you've got covering forces everywhere, leave the balance of your infantry in a province adjacent to your main battle group....they can start laying siege to a secondary prov for you (albiet, not very quickly, with the absence of cannon).

4) When your main battle group captures it's first province, immediately move to join the remaining (reserve) infantry and the covering force in the prov adjacent to them. This siege (already under way) should resolve VERY quickly.

5) Assess the situation - If English troops are on the march toward you, combine all forces in the prov you're in and meet them in battle to drive them off. If the Frenchies are keeping them tied up, then move on to another "covered" territory and repeat, reassessing the threat of English troops after each successful siege.

6) Once you have 3-4 Provs in hand, and have driven the English off a time or two, you're in great shape to dictate terms of peace heavily in your favor. Do so, build up the provs you just took, and wait for war to break out again....

Two or three rounds of that should see you with the Island all to yourself....

-=Vel=-

	11-04-2002 04:03									#3
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Where 'bouts in Scotland? I'm from Troon myself, Ayrshire - it's always nice to see other Scots on the boards.

	11-04-2002 11:05									#4
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Thanks for the info Velociryx. I'll give your strategy a try(if I can afford it) and hopefully rewrite history in a major way.
As for my location..Dunbar (birthplace of John Muir). It is accused of being the sunniest place in Scotland but I have my doubts.

	11-04-2002 15:10									#5
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quote: Originally posted by PCRefugee I have been looking for a decent board for a while (and hopefully I've found one at last).

you certainly have, my friend.

Vel: jeeezzzz, is there any game you don't have the inside track on?

	11-04-2002 15:28									#6
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Hi Ken/PCRefugee

I'm not sure in EU2 you can win a fight as early as that. England starts in a pretty strong position even if Henry and the bulk of his forces are occupied in France. I'd be tempted to keep on good terms with the French but wait until they have absorbed a few of their splinter states before getting aggressive. Henry has some seriously good leaders (and a couple of bad ones, so I suppose you could get lucky and meet one...) so I'd be tempted to ride out 20-40 years unless France/England DoW each other and you get pulled in. At that point I think I would still let the English lose a few troops beseiging before counterattacking unless your leader stats are very strong. Now that morale can dip just for sitting for months outside an enemy castle it can be worth it even on top of the usual attrition losses they suffer. You don't want that army coming back at you when yours is dipping from beseiging northumberland.

	11-04-2002 21:09									#7
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Plenty info for me to digest in my quest to see Scotland as a world power. First impressions of the board are..yes, this is the type of place I've been looking for. I am finding EU2 has so many subtleties and intricacies that it's fast becoming my favourite game of the moment.

	11-04-2002 21:25									#8
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Hiya Stoo! And I shall simply answer your question with a....

Grumbold: Oh ye of little faith! ::grin:: 'tis true that it ain't exactly EASY, but it can be done....just gotta have a bit of luck on your side....be a wily cuss in the spirit of William Wallace and all that...

And Ken: Much luck to you in your quest! Scotland and Lorraine are my two favs to play....

-=Vel=-

	11-04-2002 21:37									#9
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I haven't tried the Scots yet (been saving them for after I knew the game a bit better) but I've played England and those stats have me running scared. If you only have to face the leader that starts in York then you're fine, but if Henry or Exeter(?) sail back across then I'd expect to see any tartan army remnants running and not stopping until they reach the highlands. Once I've finished whinging about MM IX and playing HOMM4 I'll actually give it a try

	11-04-2002 23:09									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold Once I've finished whinging about MM IX and playing HOMM4 I'll actually give it a try

hehehehe, you haven't been whinging that much, have you?
note to everybody: don't mention pdf manuals around Grumbold, he might explode.

EU2 sounds really interesting. i'm bored of Civ3 now, but i'm another person whose spending a lot of time on HOMM4.

Vel? are you playing HOMM4 at the moment? or is that the only strategy game i actually know more about than you?

i've recently given up on Dark Age of Camelot (it's not a game, it's a lifestyle choice and i already have a life, thanks ) so i suppose i have room for another game at the moment and EU2 sounds pretty cool. i'll head over to the EU forums and check out what people are saying.

	11-04-2002 23:57									#11
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All of this talk about EU2 really has perked up my interest. I have EU but never bothered to get EU2. So may I ask for your opinions? In your judgement is it worth it to invest in EU2 when one already has EU?

Welcome aboard PCRefugee. Do you like wargames?

	12-04-2002 00:34									#12
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Hey Stoo! Nope...I was intrigued by HOMM4, 'specially since HOMM3 was such a kicka$$ game, but I've not bought it yet....looking forward to it, but I'm almost scared to buy it...lol....I'm on a roll right now with Candle'Bre stuff, and I guess I'm worried I'll get totally hooked....

As to EU2, HIGHLY recommended. Simply awesome. If you liked EU, EU2 will be the game you always wished EU was....

-=Vel=-

	12-04-2002 00:51									#13
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Hi Haupt Dietrich. To answer your second question first...yes I like wargames. I started off many many moons ago with board games like Advanced Squad Leader and Third Reich but always had trouble finding opponents so the advent of wargames on the PC was the answer to my problems. I've got the usual bunch on my hard drive..TOAW 1 & 2 , East, West Fronts, Rising Sun etc. Waiting to get my hands on Uncommon Valour from Matrix when it's released.
As for EU2, I just got it a few days ago and it's too early to say whether it's worth buying if you've already got the first one. Unless, that is, you want it bigger and better than before. My initial impression is that EU2 is what the first one should have been but, as I say, it's early days yet. I think the fact that I just can't stop playing it right now speaks for itself.

	12-04-2002 01:19									#14
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PCRefugee:

Glad to see there's another wargamer out there! I have all the same games you mentioned as well and love them all. My favourite scenario from the TOAW series is the Mideast 1967 War. Check out the "Do You Like Wargames" thread in this forum for Leonidas' and my exploits in the Korean War 1951 Scenario.

Keep this genre alive!

Velociryx and PCRefugee:

Thanks for the opinions on EU2. I guess I know what I have to do!

	14-04-2002 00:14									#15
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Hi Ken...Guess that makes three of us who survived the long march from PCSG.
Dunbar is one of those places i've passed through many, many times on the journey between Stirling and London but i shall look on it in new light (sunniest place in scotland eh ?) for the few minutes i spend passing through.
See you around

Standup

	14-04-2002 00:33									#16
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Glad you see you here Standup. I think this is a much better board than the last one..plenty strategy discussed here so I don't feel so out of place. If you pass through Dunbar..keep going(only joking, it's not such a bad place and had one hellluva castle up until about the 16th century - then it was demolised). Plenty history around the town and , of course, the John Muir country park. Give it a visit if you've got time.

	16-04-2002 01:29									#17
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I have been looking for a decent board for a while (and hopefully I've found one at last).

What's wrong with http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/? The community is almost as large, the average age is higher, and there's no censorship.

	16-04-2002 11:17									#18
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St Leo: I've checked it out and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that board....but I was looking for one which covered a variety of strategy games. I'm sure there are loads of good boards out there but it's a case of finding one to suit your needs.

	16-04-2002 12:55									#19
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Apolyton's willingness to give space to all things non-Civ as well as dwelling on its obsession is what makes it a great place to hang around even when your own enthusiasm for the latest Civ game has waned. The EU1/2 forum is definitely an excellent place for EU talk and has the advantage of regular candid Paradox and beta tester posts (although Paradox posters are perhaps not as commonplace as they use to be - all those new games to develop perhaps?)

FP I have been cured of my DAoC addiction by fate. I chose to stop playing the US version in anticipation of switching to the European version a week later. I recently cancelled my order for the game because my usually reliable mail order company have been unable to get a copy. This has me sufficiently worried about the efficiency of the European operation to wait and see if they are going to get their act together or collapse. The US version was fun but all the big raids into enemy territory would take place while I slept (like all RPG's that don't have servers dedicated to different real world time zones).

	16-04-2002 13:12									#20
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sorry to wander off-topic a bit here, but ... oh ... what the hell.

Grumbold: The European release of DAOC has been a bit of a shambles to say the least. The problem seems to stem from Mythic turning the maintenance and administration of the Euro servers over to GOA, who appear to have a problem telling which way up their keyboards go.
The latest patch that came out a few weeks ago was a farce. First of all GOA didn't seem to realise that tens of thousands of people would want to download it in one day, and therefore they only had their one update server hosting it (no FTP in sight ). As people on 'net forums commented at the time: GOA know how many people have bought the game and how often they play, they also know the capacity of their update server, so why the problem?
Anyway, that problem really only affected the hardcore gamers how couldn't stand to wait for 48 hours for the servers to calm down, but you can imagine the kind of anger it caused amongst the trolls. The problem that annoyed me the most, however, was that the initial patch realease was exceptionally bugged. In Europe we have to accept that our patches for this game will take a while to appear because everything has to be translated into French and German before it can go live. What we don't have to accept is huge bugs appearing in the otherwise-fine patch that Mythic have sent to GOA. It was just little things like monsters turning invisible and invading the safe-zones, player's spells doing 0 damage and everyone's items disappearing. Funny, GOA had claimed that they were play-testing the patch before it went live to check there were no major bugs ... it looks like they missed a couple.
They've fixed it now, of course, but still... I suppose we should be grateful that the monsters didn't all form Communist trade unions and starve themselves to death after the latest patch, now that would be stupid ...

Sorry for this off-topic rant.

We now return to your scheduled programming...

	16-04-2002 13:21									#21
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Thanks for the update FP. I had thought that the delay in getting patches from Mythic would help, since they themselves are fairly good at releasing patch 1.4 only to follow it with 1.4b and 1.4c within hours or days to fix problems that slipped though QA. I hadn't considered that GOA would be editing the code to provide French and German text.

Is there a good website or forum where I can keep up with the performance of the European version of the game? I could only find ones dedicated to the US version.

	16-04-2002 13:33									#22
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if you bring along a pitchfork to beat back the trolls you could always try ign vault, which has a forum for each European server (english ones are called Excalibur and Prydwen, by the way).

the official website for the european version is this site. It has forums as well as a realm war update. Members of the GOA team post official announcements (for what they're worth) in the forum here.

that isn't a particularly good selection, but it's all i know about.