11-04-2002 07:16									#1
	Waste/Corruption Tired of ads?

This is so annoying, there seems to be no way to control corruption. Every city I build that is more than two or three city radies's from my capital or forbidden palace is for all intents and perposes non-functioning. With all improvments, courhouse, police station, on Democracy, even in modern times waste practicly cripples everything. My civilization is run by a few high producing cities around my capital and forbidden palace, the rest are just for show, it takes them years to build one thing.

Think about this in real life, does LA have virtual chaos because they are far from Washington, of course not. Is every city in Alaska at a standstill, no. Is there even such a thing as a forbidden palace, hell no, it's just something the designers put in to attempt to balance out a system that is totally whacked. In civ2 (ah, the good old days) you could build a courthouse and be okay, or even better you could switch to Democracy and bask in the glow of freedom.

While I'm complainig, what brainiac designed the battle system and millitary units? It seems to have gotten worse from Civ 2. The computer declares war for no reason, somehow makes a huge army, gets about a million of them killed, won't talk peace (even though he didn't go to war for any practical reason) and spends most of his time attacking in an uncoordinated fasion on a few backwater towns, pillaging the improvments and finally taking one or two of them. Why? BECAUSE THERE'S TO MUCH WASTE TO BUILD ANYTHING TO DEFEND IT WITH! I say take it *******, enjoy its one shield a turn. No, somehow they make it into a teaming metropolis faster then it took me to kill my people to build a courhouse (why the hell would killing make something get done faster?).

And where the hell (believe me, I'm restraining my language) did the movies go? I was expecting some big visuals for wonders, not a couple of crummy pictures that don't look remotly like the real thing.

Anyway, if anybody knows something I don't please respond, esspecially on the corruption front. Thanks.

-Ben

	11-04-2002 08:25									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You must be new here...

The whole corruption thing is pretty much the single biggest complaint you hear about, besides some people complaining about the lack of multiplayer (not a big deal to me). Alas, the only way you can do anything about corruption is to put together a mod for it.

From what I've been able to gather, the AI declares war based on a combination of things:

- Size of its military relative to yours
- Proximity of your borders theirs'
- Your culture relative to theirs' (this one is debatable, but I'm conviced that having a much higher culture causes the AI to delcare war)

Note I did *NOT* say their mood towards you. I've had AI civs that were gracious one turn declare war the next. Likewise, I've have civs that totally hated me not touch me the entire game.

-- twistedx

	11-04-2002 08:35									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

This thread has just about everything anyone would want to know about corruption:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=46801

	11-04-2002 19:18									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

The next patch will let you select the level of corruption you are happy with.

	11-04-2002 19:22									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I've found that too many roads around my distant cities creates more corruption

	11-04-2002 19:24									#6
	Re: Waste/Corruption Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: The next patch will let you select the level of corruption you are happy with.

but...

quote: Originally posted by Ben Williams Every city I build that is more than two or three city radies's from my capital or forbidden palace is for all intents and perposes non-functioning. -Ben

The patch might not help. You obviously have a buggy copy, and it might not be compatible with the patch.

Maybe the pub. accidentally published pre-release versions. What's your version number? I suggest you return the CD and get another one.

	11-04-2002 19:59									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Why wait for the next patch?!?! Change it in the editor under World sizes and something else where it says Percentage of optimal number of cities. If you boost it up real high you can have a civ with no corruption what so ever.


SPec.

	11-04-2002 20:14									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

There are a couple of ways to deal with corruption without modding the game. First, a player must limit the number of cities in their empire. This is key. In Alexman's tests, once a player gets past a certain number of cities, nothing helps. Plan on a spaceship victory as domination or conquest is going to increase corruption.

Second, place the Palace and Forbidden Palace carefully. Each can have a ring of productive cities. On some maps, good placement can make almost the entire empire semi-productive.

If a player does 1 and 2, courthouses, later police stations, and We-Love-the-King day all help, as do more efficient forms of government.

Again, for many players, the key is to limit the number of cities in their empire (or change the optimal number of cities in the editor). Without this step, most other things have a small impact (see Alexman's thread). Some players see this as a crock. Who does Firaxis think they are telling us how many cities to have? I see it is a game balance contrivance that can be improved upon.

Again, my proposals are for a minimal level of effectiveness for courthouses and police stations. For big cities (10 shields or more) have a courthouse yield at least 2 shields, a police station 3. Do this with if-then-else or rounding, not by having a floor of 20% and 30%. This would give a player more control without changing overall game balance much at all. My second idea is for a new type of specialist, a Civil Engineer that generates one shield free from waste. Limit of 3 Engineers per city to avoid exploiting this by packing a city full of them with irrigated grassland all around.

	11-04-2002 21:23									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Space05us I've found that too many roads around my distant cities creates more corruption

It creates more corruption because there is more trade to corrupt. You might be better off withe the roads gross income wise, but the corruption percent is the same.

	12-04-2002 08:55									#10
	Suffering from ads?

DeLurking here ---

I've posted this on another, now defunct, board and sent it in to Firaxis ...

Doesn't it make much more sense for corruption to be based on Number of Turns traveling from Capital or Forb.Palace than actual physical distance?

Think about it. If it takes a couple months to go across the ocean, then the city governor is pretty much on his own and can get away with all kinds of stuff. But if the Emporer's Personal Auditor is a can be in the governor's mansion double-checking the official books within a day's plane flight, there's far less room for shenanigans.

For gameplay, as your empire becomes more connected with railroads and airports, the corruption would decrease.