11-04-2002 20:42									#1
	Collapse during Communism Inflate your Upload Space

Hi all,


Now I know that this has been discussed before but I just experienced for the first time last night.

Ever since 1.17f the AI basically collapses during communist government.

Here's what I mean based on my current game. (Regent, standard map, 8 civs, medium continents) I'm playing as the Persians. I share a continent with Egypt, which is down to it's last 2 cities BTW, and have noticed that the Aztecs are trampling the English on this supercontinent a short distance away. I decide to hop in on the action and declare war on England. Haven't really paid any attention to what is going on over there. When I arrive with two transport loads of troops and cavalry I notice the the English cities are all down to 1 pop each. The English govt. is communism. I am astonish at how easily I'm mopping them up. Then the Aztecs declare war on me! They just switched to communism as well.

Now the Aztecs are the worlds largest superpower in my game but I'm not worried. I figure if I can keep them in war as a communist state long enough they'll simply collapse like England has. Is something wrong with this or am I (a very poor civ player) finally gonna win my first game?

	11-04-2002 21:13									#2
	Re: Collapse during Communism Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich Is something wrong with this or am I (a very poor civ player) finally gonna win my first game?

Yes and yes. Actually, you're witnessing the AI's self destruction by drafting.

	11-04-2002 21:43									#3
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Maybe Communism needs a small wonder that we could call the Berlin Wall.

	11-04-2002 21:45									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Or the Seven Year Plan.

	11-04-2002 22:18									#5
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I guess one way to look at it is communism if not managed properly eventually leads to collapse!

	11-04-2002 22:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich I guess one way to look at it is communism if not managed properly eventually leads to collapse!

There have been lots of real world simulations that fall apart in the simulation, but in real life, some higher force is keeping it going.

This is why I could never win at SimCity.

	12-04-2002 01:14									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich I guess one way to look at it is communism if not managed properly eventually leads to collapse!

Kind of life real life?

Oh but the only difference is the AI just doesnt understand all of it.

	12-04-2002 01:15									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 This is why I could never win at SimCity.

I could never win cause maintence always killed my roads and buildings. They decay at too fast of a rate.

	12-04-2002 06:02									#9
	Stalin Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Stalin pop-rushed the Ukraine and killed about 30,000,000.

Attachment: stalin.gif
This has been downloaded 295 time(s).

	12-04-2002 08:10									#10
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I guess Zach is saying that its realistic. It must be good.

I don't think he'd get mad if Alexander jumped out of the screen and ....(insert imaginative thought here)

I started a Civ3 limmerick contest and this was my entry. What do you think of it Zach?

Sweet Choirboy please sing me that tune,
Though its true you are a buffoon,
We know you try real hard,
to be Sid's new best pard,
As you gulp his swill with a spoon.

	12-04-2002 09:29									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

How do I message a moderator so they can ban this kid from posting?

	12-04-2002 09:35									#12
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quote: Originally posted by CantRemPWs How do I message a moderator so they can ban this kid from posting?

Don't bother. I don't think they run the site according to opinion polls.

If what he says bothers you, address it. Keep it clean or you may get banned. But there are plenty of ways to impugn the intellect of someone who bothers you without being vile or directly insulting.

	12-04-2002 11:33									#13
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither But there are plenty of ways to impugn the intellect of someone who bothers you without being vile or directly insulting.

Actually, jimmytrick has had his intellect impugned many times over, and has been fairly dirrectly insulted, and he's vowed never to post here again.

None of these things seem to stop him from posting here.

Personally, I don't watch TV. I think TV shows are poorly done and the networks never release patches to fix them. But I don't go over to Sitcomworld.com and post about how TV shows suck and movies are great (and you suck for liking TV shows and I'm great for cutting the cable). He either doesn't understand how he comes across or he doesn't care. If it walks like a troll and talks like a troll, it doesn't matter if he used to be a big provider of signal, cause all I'm seeing now IMHO is noise.
Do they they boot people off because of a single e-mail complaint? No, I'm sure they don't. That doesn't mean a well drafted e-mail might not cause a moderator on the fence to go one way or another.
The answer to how to contact a moderator is to go here: http://apolyton.net/forums/member.p...info&userid=830
and click on "send a private message"

Rik

	12-04-2002 16:32									#14
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quote: Originally posted by CantRemPWs How do I message a moderator so they can ban this kid from posting?

Well using my insight from the latest and greatest Kevin Smith movie - "As long as there is Civilization 3, the net nerds are going to have something bad to say about it. There is no real way to stop them..well.. other than showing up at their houses and beating the *#&@ out of them."

Well..er.. it didn't go exactly like that, but still. And hey, if you live in the States you can just track him down and file an' injuction which would keep him from posting here - claim his posts caused you massive emotional damage, it's a great way to get mental health care at someone elses expense too!

Then again I'd just follow the post above and send a message to the Moderator.

Anyway I've noticed the problem mentioned above (The one about Communism). I always found it kinda odd that they'd draft everyone and throw hoards of conscripts at you. I think if you changed the draft limit on ANY government the AI would draft itself to death. Kinda sad really. But hey, I guess if the fall of Communism had to be caused by Drafting your nation to death - it would be much better than running it into the ground trying to compete with the US over a fictional weapons defense program eh?

Chaing

	12-04-2002 16:58									#15
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quote: Originally posted by ChaingKaiShek Anyway I've noticed the problem mentioned above (The one about Communism). I always found it kinda odd that they'd draft everyone and throw hoards of conscripts at you. I think if you changed the draft limit on ANY government the AI would draft itself to death. Kinda sad really. But hey, I guess if the fall of Communism had to be caused by Drafting your nation to death - it would be much better than running it into the ground trying to compete with the US over a fictional weapons defense program eh? Chaing

They should probably put some limit on drafting, but Russia not only survived the mass pop-rushing, but went on to defeat Germany in WWII (with allied help).

Gamewise, pop-rushing a lost city is not a terribly bad idea, a sour-grapes strategy, though it is a strategy I would not normally adopt.

	12-04-2002 17:04									#16
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Hi folks,

Just thought I'd give a quick update on what is happening in my current game.

When we last left I (Persia) was at war with the English and the Aztecs. I made peace with the English as I had punched them enough. It's been 20 turns since the war ended with them and they are still in communism. They're slowly regaining population but I must assume the people are all mad about being whipped.

The war with the Aztecs (the largest and strongest civ in my game) ended in stalemate. Just couldn't crack their defences. Peace was declared and I've been steadily building up my army. However my only source of aluminum ran out and now I look greedily at the Aztecs 3 sources of aluminum............

	12-04-2002 17:14									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Zachriel They should probably put some limit on drafting, but Russia not only survived the mass pop-rushing, but went on to defeat Germany in WWII (with allied help). Gamewise, pop-rushing a lost city is not a terribly bad idea, a sour-grapes strategy, though it is a strategy I would not normally adopt.

I never denied that they did not accomplish amazing things since the USSR was 'founded'. They did many horrible things and they did things which were nothing more than great acomplishments. I mean afterall they became an' Equal superpower to rival the United states, they also formed a huge industrial base to back it all up with.

Anyway At the advent of Nationalism into Civ3, the AI drafts all it can from every city per turn, once they Get Communism they can draft (3?) instead of (1) so you'd notice the effects MUCH more quickly. I believe you'd notice the same collapse under Facist governments as well (If you had a mod which added a Facist government, they were not included with the released version were they?)

These again are just my own thoughts.

Chaing

	12-04-2002 17:16									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich Hi folks, Just thought I'd give a quick update on what is happening in my current game. When we last left I (Persia) was at war with the English and the Aztecs. I made peace with the English as I had punched them enough. It's been 20 turns since the war ended with them and they are still in communism. They're slowly regaining population but I must assume the people are all mad about being whipped. The war with the Aztecs (the largest and strongest civ in my game) ended in stalemate. Just couldn't crack their defences. Peace was declared and I've been steadily building up my army. However my only source of aluminum ran out and now I look greedily at the Aztecs 3 sources of aluminum............

I think the AI only will draft when they are at WAR with another Civ.. are the English currently fighting anyone else? I dont think you were seeing them rushing military units through forced labor but instead through the 'draft'.

Chaing

	12-04-2002 17:36									#19
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quote: Originally posted by ChaingKaiShek I think the AI only will draft when they are at WAR with another Civ.. are the English currently fighting anyone else? I dont think you were seeing them rushing military units through forced labor but instead through the 'draft'. Chaing

Actually the world is at peace in my game. There are only four civs left year 1962. Me (Persians), English, Aztecs, and Iroquois. I have a spy in England and I can see their army size. They don't have much, about 30 units. Most of their strength is in longbowman and cavalry. The rest of the world is churning out tanks and jet fighters. I've made an MPP with the Iroquois and I've decided to try to start another war with the Aztecs because I need their aluminum!

Getting back to the communism thing. Englands land is still heavily improved despite the war. I wonder why they don't switch out of communism? My guess is that since the majority of their cities are still at size 1 they are staying put in communism.

	12-04-2002 17:48									#20
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Actually.. The english stay as in Communism because the mighty SID has told them that Being Communists is what they like best.

Chaing

	13-04-2002 04:07									#22
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Hmmm, When I veiw The English in the editor Infogames provided, it's showing Democracy as England's favorite government. I have paid much attention to England, my games tend to be open war with Germany and Culture war with Egypt. Would most of you agree England takes Communism when avalible?

	13-04-2002 23:40									#23
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quote: Originally posted by CantRemPWs How do I message a moderator so they can ban this kid from posting?

Just use the Ignore feature in your Control Panel. Works for me. If no one bothers replying to them, they usually go away and find some other place to spout off.

	13-04-2002 23:50									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Just use the Ignore feature in your Control Panel. Works for me. If no one bothers replying to them, they usually go away and find some other place to spout off.

A PM to the mods work real well too

	13-04-2002 23:58									#25
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I have never intentionally insulted anyone, anything I post is just teasing. Hopefully none will be offended.

	14-04-2002 00:11									#26
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Unfortunately, many are offended jt.

sOK. Some of us know that you are the President of the SidMeier fan club in your other identity.

	14-04-2002 01:55									#27
	Re: Collapse during Communism Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich Ever since 1.17f the AI basically collapses during communist government.

Try lowering draft & pop rush penalities to 20 (use the editor).

I think that would fix the problem.

	14-04-2002 02:47									#28
	Re: Re: Collapse during Communism Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by player1 Try lowering draft & pop rush penalities to 20 (use the editor). I think that would fix the problem.

Interesting, I didn't think of this. I guess I've learned to take advantage of the AI during communism. Maybe I should make some changes in the editor before the next patch to make the game somewhat challenging.

BTW I managed to kill off england. That left the Iroquois and the Aztecs left. By the time England fell however it was 2029. I was in second place score wise and lost the game to the Aztecs. They were just too big! Now that I have seen firsthand what communism does to the AI I think I'll do better the next game!