12-04-2002 02:08									#1
	What random events would you have included? Put an end to popups!

In honor of the original roots of Civilization as being the Avalon Hill Board game, what random events would you have included in the game?

	12-04-2002 02:34									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I just got a brilliant idea about a random event in Civ3 ! It would be the "random end of game event". Suddendly out of nowhere, a box appear in the middle of the screen and says "Congratulation, you won" or "You were defeated", according to a random number.
Mmh, ok, perhaps it's a little extreme... People that don't like it could click on the "random victory" to shut it off. And to not happen too soon, let's say that you need to build something to trigger this random event. Perhaps a Great Wonder ? Hey, let's call it the UN, ok ?

	12-04-2002 04:17									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Every natural disaster that was in Civ1, except earthquakes, since there wasn't any way to prevent them.
Maybe some "social" random events, like a political scandal blocking the production of a city for a turn, if you don't have any palace/FP/courthouse in this city for example (alwys wondered in Civ1 what meant the "Scandal in [foreign city] !" popup).

Woow, Warlord...

	12-04-2002 04:46									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Natural disasters like floods (especially on flood plains) and volcanos (in the mtns that kill units nearby or devastate cities). Risk of floods would increase with pollution (cleaned or uncleaned).

	12-04-2002 04:47									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't remember any of the random events in civ1...anyone care to refresh my memory? I wouldn't like totally random events that you have no control over, but rather things that you can prevent or avert in some way...

	12-04-2002 04:52									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Occasionally there was a pop-up in CIV that would say there had been a volcano eruption that killed pop or destroyed buildings (I'm not sure of the exact details). The incidence was reduced (eliminated ?) in cities with temples!

	12-04-2002 05:01									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Every natural disaster that was in Civ1, except earthquakes, since there wasn't any way to prevent them. Maybe some "social" random events, like a political scandal blocking the production of a city for a turn, if you don't have any palace/FP/courthouse in this city for example (alwys wondered in Civ1 what meant the "Scandal in [foreign city] !" popup). Woow, Warlord...

well... i never played Civ1... but i played the SimCity games with distasters on... i just have an opinion on the earthquake comment.

Where would the long term fun be if all the natural disasters could be prevented? Especially in a game like Civ3, where the late game is arguably the most tedious... it would also be the time of the game where the most disasters would be preventable (by what im gathering from your comment)... so it wouldnt add much late game wise..

Im a suscriber to the SimCity disaster concept... no way to prevent it, only to prepare for it (earthquake outfitting for buildings...)... the only disaster i disliked in Sim City was the alien or monster attacks... annoying to repair after (hunt and peck.. really hard in a big downtown..) and a bit unrealistic, and out of place, considering the techs don't go very far into the future.

But if theres random events were put into Civ3... i would have included

1: Civil Wars (yeah, i know the difficulties...)
2: Natural disasters of all types (wouldnt nice big asteroids be crazy? take out a continent... oh yeah..)
3: Governments randomly switched, and not picked by the player (like... the player still has control over the country, but the people choose what type of government)
4: i dunno how to describe this... 3rd party tech discoveries... the tech isn't discovered by your techies, it isnt by another nations techies, but just by some civilian who you have to go to to buy the tech off of. Would work great for certain techs... not so much realistic for others
5: for late late game... like, if you go past 2050... settlers from other worlds. Wouldnt that be great? Aliens from Mars! well.. maybe not Mars... They come and settle within some nations borders, or on un-ocupied land... or they always settle on what the AI deems the most advantageous land, no matter what is there.

those are just some quick ideas.

	12-04-2002 06:18									#8
	catastrophes Support Apolyton

volcanos {mts, hills}, earthquakes {mts, hills}, tidal waves
{costal}...rare but no defense
forest fires {forest, jungle}, floods {floodplains, any terrain adjacent w/river}, plagues (aka Black Death, Spanish Influenza)...also rare but proper techs provide some defense
extremely rare - meteor/comet strikes causing forest fires and other destruction (Illinois 1863, Tungesta, Russia 1906), some very late high tech defense? Skywatch small wonder to limit damage?
Just some ideas

	12-04-2002 07:55									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm not a big fan of random events. Most of the random events in SMAC, for instance, were negative events. And most of the events mentionned in this thread are also negative. It wouldn't add much to the gameplay. Well, to be blunt, it amounts to random punishment. And I'm not a big fan of blind, random punishment. On the other hand, a events system à la EU2 would add a lot to Civ3, it would add flavor and it would add some depth. And as for those kinky civers who want their daily dose of punishment, maybe Korn or player1 could build them a "Venus in furs" Mod.

	12-04-2002 16:16									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I find the idea of random events quite interesting, but it should be implemented carefully, especially natural disasters. Volcanos and flood plains must be easily identifiable (cf. Theodrik's proposal) like in the board game to avoid absolute suprise when the disaster happens. We could then imagine that engineering could reduce damages due to flood, earthquake or tidal waves. Plagues could also happen randomly, but hospital and aqueduct could reduce their effects.
I think the game would be more (too ?) difficult to play with religious or civil disorder, but some buildings, wonders or technologies could then reduce their effects (monotheism, courthouse...). In fact the mood concept already exists for this type of events and it would be as well not to add them; exception: civil war. And for this point I think that the concept was well implemented within Civ I and Civ II.

	12-04-2002 16:56									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well as mentioned above it would be nifty if parts of your CIV would break off and declare themselves seperate (hey they did it in Call to Power II - well. whoever made that one did. Anyway another cool thing that would be nice to have as if, lets say in theory you are running your empire poorly - the citizens or the military could decide to get rid of you, of course resulting in an' end of game. But hey, management is a part of Civ as well, not just building massive armies and slaying everyone on the map.

But then again that would be an' event you could avoid, same thing with the civil war as well. I mean if you are treating people right they wont want to leave anyway, right?

Disasters would be nice.. What about terrorist acts? (In bad taste really with the current events of the world - but humor me here.) In CTP II as the ages advanced, so did the Barbarian threat! And eventually they became Eco terrorists and such. They could work in something similar in Civ3 with a patch I would think. Maybe a foreign national in your city one day decides he would rather blow up the palace instead of be a part of your horrible nation anymore.

Something like that could result in turns of "Anarchy" and eventually prompt you to pick a new type of government - you know, to re-establish order.

And However much Terrorists are despised they ARE a part of this world. It would be an extra challenge if we were to add them to Civ as well.

Terrorists acts could be 100% random to, they are nearly impossible to defend against if you think about.

Chaing

	12-04-2002 18:15									#12
	Any positive events? Got spare money?

I find it amazing that no one has suggested any positive random events. I think gold, improvements in the political situation and population booms interesting.

	12-04-2002 19:00									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Akka le Vil I just got a brilliant idea about a random event in Civ3 ! It would be the "random end of game event". Suddendly out of nowhere, a box appear in the middle of the screen and says "Congratulation, you won" or "You were defeated", according to a random number. Mmh, ok, perhaps it's a little extreme... People that don't like it could click on the "random victory" to shut it off. And to not happen too soon, let's say that you need to build something to trigger this random event. Perhaps a Great Wonder ? Hey, let's call it the UN, ok ?

This was actually possible in Civ 2. Whenever you discovered a future tech, the computer did a random number check, and if it came back true, your civ transcended, and you one. I came across it when i was tinkering with the rules, and thought it was a joke until it actually happened to me.

As far as what to put in the game, I like Deornwulf's idea of positive occurrances but I couldn't think of all that many...

Positive RE
1) New land forming due to volcanic activity
2) Bumper Crops

Negative RE

I) Natural Disasters

1) Earthquakes that;
a) Destroy Cities
b) Alter Terrain
c) Alter the course of rivers

2) Floods that wipe out food stores and kill population
3) Meteor strikes (very rare - see note below)* They could have a range:
a) Pollutes a single tile/kills x population
b) Acts like a nuclear strike
c) Act like the planet busters in SMAC (actually destroy land)

4) Hurricanes that destroy property and takes lives
5) Tornados (only on plains tiles though)
6) Forest Fires that convert create pollution (cr -> theodrik)
7) Alien Colonists (cr -> Ninot). They could replace a dead civ, or just be super advanced barbarians
8) Plauges
9) Volcanoes (but this should require the creation of a volcano terrain type)
10) Famine
11) Sun spots (high tech units don't work during a period of sun spot activity)
12) Solar flare that dramatically changes climate.
13) El Nino

II) Not so natural disasters (user preventable)

1) Earthquakes cused by Nuclear weapons
2) Civil Wars
3) AI barbarians* - could come with the advent of computers. Take things to far,and Bam! (You could have Neo or Arnold as a GL )
4) Pirates that plunder cities without barracks (ala Civ I)(seperate from privateers)
5) Fires. (both London and Chicago burned nearly to the ground during their past)

* I think there should be a scale, ranging from realistic (earthquakes) to fantastic (asteroids & aliens). When you start a game, you modify random events just like you would the map.

	12-04-2002 19:04									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

"Random events or not random events?" It's an old question that was largely debated over here at Apolyton.
Forgetting older suggestion, mostly appeared during game development, knowing today game I have another bunch of "conservative suggestion".

We already have minor tribe encampment for random events: you can gain goodies (not many, it seems to me into my current games) or bad news, as a group of enemies.

If only Firaxis evolve them during ages, they can change encampments to different "random event source". Just some example to let you add yours favourites:

Industrial ages


Modern ages
- Corporate labs
can give you a free tech advance
can give you extra money (as one time tax?)
can give you a "scandal event" that start a mini anarchy or nearest city revolt
can start an epidemic (biological/chemical leak) that affect nearest city

- terrorist nests
reveal a bunch of terrorist that start pillaging the surrounding enhancement
if you destroy terrorist that same turn it starts a special "we love the leader day" for one turn (people happy for your prompt defense)

- Factories
can give you extra units for a small fee in money (less than usual cost)

You can't know the kind of building nor the positive or negative effect before you check it.
They are "easter eggs", take them or leave them

Firaxis can save most of "minor tribe encampment code", because its change are about graphics and prize you gain. You don't really need to counteract for unvanted random events. If you hate the risk, simply stay away, if you want some salt from a boring game, try some and enjoy the result.

Please, feel free to enhance my suggestion, if you like it

	12-04-2002 19:15									#15
	Tired of ads?

I think one random event that would be interesting would be a chance that outling cities will revolt and form a new civ.

The chances are increased with distance. They are drastically increased if the city is not physically connected with the rest of the empire. They increase if the city is in disorder or otherwise unhappy, and if a city bordering a city revolts, that city should recieve an extra check.

Historical basis: United States of America. You have a bunch of colonies on a far off shore on a different continent. Something happens to make them unhappy (please, I don't want this to become a debate on the causes of the American Revolution). The cities revolt and form a new civ (America).

Ways to prevent this would be to keep the outlying colonies happy.

Austin

	12-04-2002 22:09									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith can give you a free tech advance

It could be a good random event; for example rubber was discovered by chance, like radioactivity.

	12-04-2002 22:11									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Austin I think one random event that would be interesting would be a chance that outling cities will revolt and form a new civ. The chances are increased with distance. They are drastically increased if the city is not physically connected with the rest of the empire. They increase if the city is in disorder or otherwise unhappy, and if a city bordering a city revolts, that city should recieve an extra check. Historical basis: United States of America. You have a bunch of colonies on a far off shore on a different continent. Something happens to make them unhappy (please, I don't want this to become a debate on the causes of the American Revolution). The cities revolt and form a new civ (America). Ways to prevent this would be to keep the outlying colonies happy. Austin

Interesting idea too !

	13-04-2002 00:14									#18
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I do like the civil war, colonies becoming a new civ, based on your current techs. I also like the bumper crop idea. Most of the ideas offered so far are doable, and if kept to a reasonable level, would ad to the "Oh ****!" richness of CIV III instead of becoming "@%$#*&!" .

	13-04-2002 01:18									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Austin I think one random event that would be interesting would be a chance that outling cities will revolt and form a new civ. The chances are increased with distance. They are drastically increased if the city is not physically connected with the rest of the empire. They increase if the city is in disorder or otherwise unhappy, and if a city bordering a city revolts, that city should recieve an extra check. Austin

Something like this might be a more reasonable way to handle large empires than the current corruption fiasco.

	13-04-2002 01:25									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

The random events in the original Civ game were kind of lame, from what I remember. There were just pop-up messages without any graphics.

If random events were added into the game, they'd have to be optional for gameplay. I can see how annoying they would get, judging by how the developers have made riots, pollution, and culture-flipping so.

	13-04-2002 01:30									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by siredgar The random events in the original Civ game were kind of lame, from what I remember. There were just pop-up messages without any graphics. If random events were added into the game, they'd have to be optional for gameplay. I can see how annoying they would get, judging by how the developers have made riots, pollution, and culture-flipping so.

Civ I was not known for it's graphics. The random events did have a real effect and you did what you could to avoid them.

Real life if full of random events. Terrorist attacks, assassinations, earthquakes, volcanoes, droughts, hurricanes, etc.

I think it would a lot to the simulation of real life aspect of the game.

	13-04-2002 01:31									#22
	Put an end to popups!

They were just pop-ups, but we would have animations. Imagine a volcano blowing up beside your favorite city with lava pouring down out of it.

	13-04-2002 01:46									#23
	Random Event Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

More realistic diseases are needed...if you don't build police or courthouses...the hookers take over and people die of exotic STDs.

Or chunks of space debris hit the planet destroying cities at random..unless you can build a spaceship and a team to knock the debris off course.

Space aliens invade the planet and must be stopped.

Land bridges appear due to volcanic activity and isolated areas on the map become accesible.

	13-04-2002 04:33									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You guys are gluttons for punishment...

Here are some random events that would be neat, in no particular order:

- Stock market boom: adds +2 commerce per square for 20 turns. Requires Stock Market (or was it Stock Exchange?) small wonder. Only available to Commerical civs.

- Technological boom: +200% research in civ for 20 turns. Requires library and university be built in all cities. +50% chance if research lab is built in all cities. Only available to Scientific civs.

- Bloodlust: Occurs if your civ is extremely successful in combat against another civ. Three extra happy citizens per city & reduces war weariness by 75% for duration of war, regardless of government. Only available to Militaristic civs.

- Industrial revolution: 200% to total production output for entire civ for 20 turns. Requires factories & power plants in each city. Only available to Industrious civs.

- Urban sprawl: +1 citizen during city growth (similar to Cure for Cancer or Longevity, can't remember which) for 20 turns. No direct requirement, just happens at random. Only available to Expansionist civs.

I can't think of something for Religious (maybe additional happiness or something). I think you get the point, though -- random events based on your civ type. It would give some crappy civs (especially America) some appeal that the otherwise not have, and might even be the deciding factor in choosing a civ.

-- twistedx

	13-04-2002 08:07									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm in favor of natural disasters that can be minimized by specific improvements.

Civ3 already has the excellent nuke ground shaking that could be applied to an earthquake. When a map is generated, an underlaying plate map could determine where future quakes would happen. Damage can be minimized by building codes.

Volcanoes would make a good and somewhat predictable disaster. Would the AI be smart enough to avoid building under them? No defense against them, except warnings so population could be evacuated (build lots of refugees/workers).

Tornadoes/hurricanes should be confined to specific routes (again, predetermined at map generation time). Building codes can minimize damage.

Droughts and bumper crops to affect food production. Weather can also trigger floods. I think that being able to claim coastal tiles as is a good ideal, and floods could flood these tiles.

Stock market crashes and rises based on some specific economic conditions. Requires wall street small wonder.

Instead of population causing pollution, i'd rather see pandemics. One civ can infect another via trade or war.

Civil war/revolution are sadly missing. Base it on happiness of the civ in general, specifically on movement distance from the palace and FP.

How about a happiness benefit for winning a world war? Think of the baby boom after WW2, and even the roaring 20s. Altho this would require a fix to the frequency that AIs switch sides during a war, and how exactly to define a world war, specifically how is victory defined.

I know most of these are negative, but IMHO most goods things have already been accounted for. Goody huts give free techs. Resources already come and go, and you dont even have to discover the gold, it apparently just lays on the ground waiting to be picked up. i would avoid disasters or benefits that are human created such as fires, or industrial booms. Also avoid any extraterrestrial events since the game really doesnt process past current technology. Based on the game, we should already be building spaceships.

	13-04-2002 09:44									#26
	Re: Random Event Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by danimal More realistic diseases are needed...if you don't build police or courthouses...the hookers take over and people die of exotic STDs.

LOL.

I guess it's not too far off from reality.

	13-04-2002 12:22									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Creation of a new civ.

	16-04-2002 01:27									#28
	Smurfs Get a bigger avatar today!

I would like to see the inclusion of a Smurf Civilization. Obviously, Papa Smurf would be the leader and all the weapons would be non-lethal and just smurfy.

	16-04-2002 02:37									#29
	Increase Your PM Length

how about the responsible government random event? the gov decides it has too much money and declares a no tax year

A guy can dream. stupid irs

	16-04-2002 05:04									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

well, these all sound like great ideas, but all of these disasters couldnt be too frequent. i think that there should be great events, and small events. how often do large revolutions, creation of smurf civs, devestating volcanoes and tidal waves happen? not that often. however, things like bumper crops, droughts, stock crashes and rises and forest fires happen often to countries. there might not even be a pop up for these small events. the great events, however should be GREAT. happening 0, 1 or 2 times in a whole game.