12-04-2002 12:05									#1
	Combat multipliers Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Are the modifier effects additive or cumulative?

Example. Vet Pikeman fortified in a river city against vet crusader.

Pike:
Base defense (2) + Fortified (1) + Vet (1) + River (1) + Pike bonus (1) = 6 defense.

Crusader:
Base attack (5) + Vet (2.5) = 7.5 attack.

Is this true?

	12-04-2002 12:25									#2
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I think you will find that the multipliers are, er, multiplied.

For full gory details see the thread "Info: Combat (GL)" just below in the forum - or look it up in the Great Library - at the top of this forum or in my sig.

	12-04-2002 13:47									#3
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I did check out the Combat section, but I couldn't find whether the effects are multiplied or added.

According to you, the calculations would be (Vet Pike on river v.s. Vet Crusader)

Vet Pike: 2 (base defense) * 1.5 (vet) * 1.5 (fortified) * 1.5 (river) * 1.5 (pike bonus) = 10.125

Vet Crusader: 5 (base attack) * 1.5 (vet) = 7.5

So a rivered vet pike men is "immune" from vet crusaders? I don't think so.

	12-04-2002 14:19									#4
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Well - a very quick test - certainly not large enough to verify the odds exactly just pitted my vet Crook against your vet fortified, rivered Pikey and lost 9-1 -- far more in line with my figures than with yours ...

	12-04-2002 14:21									#5
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The section in the FAQ is Section 3 - adjustment factors -- you can get there most easily by opening the thread and clicking on the link "factors" ...

	12-04-2002 16:18									#6
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I just ran the GL calculation through an Excel spreadsheet and emerged finally with a figure of 11.07% chance of victory for the vet Crook - which is nicely in line with my rapid lab test.

Ain't it nice when things come together?

For reference the calculation I performed was...

A = 60 (7.5*8)
D = 81

p = 59/162 since A < D

ah = dh = 10

P = Sum(n=10 .. 19) { Combin(n-1, 9) * p^10 * (1-p)^(n-10) }

giving P = 0.1107

any corrections etc gratefully received

Last edited by Scouse Gits on 12-04-2002 at 16:28

	12-04-2002 18:34									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Spartan_RawB Vet Pike: 2 (base defense) * 1.5 (vet) * 1.5 (fortified) * 1.5 (river) * 1.5 (pike bonus) = 10.125 Vet Crusader: 5 (base attack) * 1.5 (vet) = 7.5 So a rivered vet pike men is "immune" from vet crusaders? I don't think so.

He's not immune, but just has a better chance of winning the battle than the crusader.

I frequently lose knights and crusaders to pikemen in defense-favorable terrain. I even lose dragoons about 20-30% of the time.

	12-04-2002 19:12									#8
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Multipliers are multiplied, EXCEPT for the river terrain bonus. That one is added to the other terrain as a modifier. For example, a hill doubles defense; A rivered hill multiplies the defense value by 2.5, not 3.

Your veteran pikeman fortified on a river attacked by a crusader defends with 10.125, as you have calculated. SG1, you are a fine statistician. (but the Great Library link does not go to the right thread... )

dunk999, the pikeman does not gain the pike bonus against a dragoon, as the latter has 2hp. Spartan_RawB's pikeman would still defend with a 6.75, tho. Your veteran dragoons should expect about the odds you estimate.


(le marquis as he spots a new combat statistics thread)

	16-04-2002 04:21									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits I just ran the GL calculation through an Excel spreadsheet and....

I would let that spreadsheet to rest. The great library is waiting...

	16-04-2002 21:05									#10
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker "The English are, in my opinion, a little bit lazy..."

I resemble that remark, Sirrah! My seconds will call upon you shortly.

SG[1]