12-04-2002 17:40									#1
	World At War! (1900 - 1950) V1.03 Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Greetings one 'n all! The World At War! (1900 - 1950) MOD has entered its release phase. V1.03 has been uploaded to my website.

If you are running V1.02 then you only need to download texts.zip from my website, otherwise, you'll need all four files.

Please read the readme first.

Overview of World At War!

It is January 1st, 1900............

You have ascended to power of your nation....................

Beginning with the acquired knowledge of mankind to 1900, and a handful of rag-tag military and civilian units at your command, you must guide your nation through the diplomatic, scientific and military web that is the World At War era!

Will you be the spider or the fly?

We shall soon see.................

	14-04-2002 08:24									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hey Dale,

For whatever reason, your link is sending me to a page that says the site doesn't exist. Are you down right now?

And here I was, all excited about 1.3!


Oh, and what govn't types are able to build u-boats? I played a game of 1.2 as the Germans and couldn't build them. My govn't was democracy.

Hope to hear from you soon!

	15-04-2002 15:54									#3
	Suffering from ads?

ElvisMonster:

Yeah, my site was closed as I created a brand new look. Yep, I finally did my website properly.

Anyways, to answer your question:

"Oh, and what govn't types are able to build u-boats? I played a game of 1.2 as the Germans and couldn't build them. My govn't was democracy."

Even though it would be lovely to build U-Boats as a democratic Germany, only the fascist governments can build them.

	15-04-2002 22:06									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Great work Dale.

I'm downloading as I type

	16-04-2002 01:56									#5
	Remove this text

Hi Dale:

I think both copies of the "texts.zip" for "World at War" on your website are corrupt. I downloaded both using my browser and Getright, and both times I found the zip files wouldn't open (and I got the message "unexpected end of archive").

Hope this can be fixed soon

Cheers

	16-04-2002 03:56									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Leonidas:

Just downloaded the texts.zip and didn't have a problem. Both WinRAR and Winzip extract the files correctly. Maybe it's getright. The file is only 310kb. Anyways, here's the file attached here.....

Attachment: texts.zip
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

	16-04-2002 05:18									#7
	possible bug Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi Dale,

I've been trying out your WAW mod, and have to say that so far I love it , I have found a potential problem however. Sorry if this has been addressed previously, but It freezes up on me everytime that I attempt to check out the science advisor . Do you know why this might be occurring? Other than that, I think that this is possibly the best mod I've tried so far. Great work

	16-04-2002 05:54									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You can always tell when someone hasn't read the "Readme First.txt" file.

quote: From Readme First.txt....... *********** KNOWN BUGS: Unfortunately in the case of any game/MOD/add-on, there are some bugs in World At War. These are listed here. There is no need to report these bugs as they are being addressed. - Science advisor (either by pressing F6 or clicking on the button) will lockup the game. Sorry, don't use it.

Centrifuge:

I have no idea why it's happening. You can get the information you require by using the science embassy info tab of the Civ. A bit of a hassle, but it gets you there. Thanks for the vote of confidence too.

	16-04-2002 08:08									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi Dale:

Thanks for the atachment. It downloaded fine and everything extracted without a hitch. . .

Weird that I couldn't open thezip from your website.

Oh, well everything's fine now. . .

Many thanks - I'm going to try a game tonight

	16-04-2002 16:01									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

WOW!(my new name for WAW - replace 'at' with 'of' )
My god Dale - i've just had my arse kicked in 61 turns !! In fact its the first time since playing CTP2 singleplayer that i've seen the defeat/end game animation.
You warmonger - i'm outraged at the violent death of my people - i want to go on a rally for world peace , tell everyone about the horror of war.
I didn't get a chance to build much of anything(teach me to start a war i guess). Erm thank you, i think. This will silence those critics of CTP2:

Passive AI.......er i don't think so, my poor democracy was ruthlessly crushed under the fascist boot of Indonesia(61 turns!)
Slow boring start........not anymore.

I'm still in shock......might have to play CTP2 vanilla style just to recover. This should be banned

One thing, had a spy that got caught spying - said he was caught and killed but it didn't happen, got the same message twice in a row(same spy different city) but he was still alive(untill a Stormtrooper shot him). That's all i had time to test out! Oh yeah M1 artillary seems very powerfull against a machinegunner - seeing that only its bombard score is the highest vs? a couple of times in one on one with a machine gunner it won(i hadn't even invented M1 at this time - seems very hard for the beginning of the game?). Love it......i just feel war is an evil thing

EDIT: OK if you haven't downloaded this MOD(very easy) and played it you should ASAP - evil warmongers need only apply! This should be topped - those who whine about passive CTP2, point them in its direction

Last edited by child of Thor on 16-04-2002 at 16:08

	16-04-2002 16:33									#11
	Re: World At War! (1900 - 1950) V1.03 Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Child of Thor:

quote: Originally posted by Dale Will you be the spider or the fly? We shall soon see.................

Well, you were warned!

But thanks for a great testament.


As for M1 arty vs Machine-gunner:

M1 artys were WAY ahead of their time. Also remember, machine-guns were a recent tech and hadn't been perfected into the deadly guns we know today till after WWI (I say how many machineguns overheated and jammed in WWI). So I see it as fair.

I just think you're spitting chips at being handed ya but on a silver platter.

	17-04-2002 02:16									#12
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hi Dale:

Just reporting from the front:

I'm at turn 70, and it is TOTAL WAR (lol)

My little German Empire is hanging on by the skin of its teeth. Bloody AI is everywhere

The fixes for this version work very well: the AI moves in stacks; it attacks with a nice mix of troops; and it defends it's larger cities with a variety of troops. No bugs to report. . .

People who want to play with most of the modern toys, and who enjoy a good knock-down fight, should be playing this Mod. . .

Nicely done, Dale

I'll keep you informed of my progress. . .

	17-04-2002 17:51									#13
	Death on the frontlines! Tired of ads?

I want my money back!

COT, you got it lucky mate. I started a new game (8 civs/impos/raging/huge). Orange declared war on me by slaughtering my innocent politician (innocent? sic) and then proceeded to pound my cities with stacks of 7!!!! The AI's I'd met had heaps of cities (see the map in the corner) and I only had 5 when he attacked.

Anyways, take a look at this:

Attachment: death.gif
This has been downloaded 316 time(s).

	18-04-2002 08:06									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hi Dale:

I started another game to playtest the Mod more fully.

This time I played: huge map; 5 civs; hard; ocean; islands. Now on turn 179.

My main comments will be for the naval portion of the game.

Observations:

1) When the AI is on an island, it will develop cities along the coast and it will send transports loaded with troops to attack me. However, the transports are always alone and are never grouped with a warship.

2) The AI will build warships, but even though battleships are available, it will always build cruisers (and I think I know why). Again, the cruisers always attack one at a time. It would be great if they could be grouped together like armies to form fleets before they attack.

3) This is why I think the AI only builds cruisers: when a cruiser is matched with a battleship, the cruiser will usually win 3 times out of five, or more. I lost 4 battleships in a row to cruisers.

I think in CTP2, the cruisers are too powerful. The cruisers have the same armour rating (3) and the same damage rating (4) as battleships. And cruisers are only ten points behind a battleship in Attack, Defense, and Ranged Damage indicators, which again, I think may be too high.

If everything else remains the same, then at least the armour and damage ratings should be adjusted to reflect the battleship's heavier metal plating and gun sizes.

4) This is a suggestion on how to improve the naval battle portion of the game (this is a product of the game itself, and not your Mod, Dale):

When two fleets meet, the ships fight one-on-one. I'm wondering if it would be possible to have the ships fight the same way armies now fight: with battleships in front; cruisers behind them with ranged attack like artillery; and the destroyers providing flank attacks. Would this be possible?

This would provide incentive to have a balanced fleet. Hopefuly, the AI can be "trained" to put together proper fleets as it has been made to do with armies.

I think the above would greatly strengthen the naval portion of CTP2 generally, and your Mod in particular. If these areas can be worked on, then this knowledge on the naval portion of the game could be used in other Mods as well as for a scenario about the Pacific War.

I love playing on island maps. So I'm hoping something can be done to improve this portion of the game.

One small correction:

In the build list propaganda is spelled "propeganda".


Fantastic Mod, Dale. It just keeps getting better. The above suggestions are just ways of adding to the gameplay

Keep up the great work. I'm having a blast playing this Mod. . .

	18-04-2002 10:51									#15
	Tired of ads?

More information on battleships and cruisers.

The following information will compare US battleships and cruisers in armour and armament:

Battleships:

1) USS Arizona:

Armour - (14") Belt; (8") deck
Armament - 14" main guns

2) South Dakota:

Armour - (12.25") belt; (5") decks
Armament - 16" main guns


Cruisers:

1) US "Cleveland" Class:

Armour - (5") belt; (3") deck
Armament - 6" main guns

2) Salem Class Heavy Cruiser:

Armour - (6-8") belt; (3") deck
Armament - 8" main guns

From this quick survey (all information for the above was from The Complete Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II), battleships have twice the firepower and twice the armour of cruisers (even the heavy cruisers). This does not include the extra range of the battleships over the cruisers.

So I hope something can be done to adjust the ship values for the game.


Another question: I'm just wondering why it's possible to obtain battleships and cruisers before getting destroyers? Shouldn't they all make their appearance at once?

Or would it be possible for the destroyers to appear first, then the cruisers and later, the battleships.

If I remember correctly, in Civ 2 the destroyer came first, then you could research to obtain the cruiser and then the battleship. Would it be possible to have them appear in this order in the Mod?

I'm looking forward to more great things

Cheers!

	18-04-2002 11:34									#16
	On ships..... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Okay, I knew something might need to be changed in the cruisers and battlecruisers. Remember, I did move them forward from Naval Warfare (just forgot to tone them down) . I'll fix that one up.

The order:

- Battleships
- Cruisers
- Destroyers

This was deliberate BTW. Battleships were around before 1900. Britain had the largest fleet of battleships in the world in 1898. As for cruisers, I decided to put them to Assembly Lines because before procedural/automated manufactoring, not many cruisers were produced. There were a few floating around (pun intended ) but the battleship was still the main ship till just after WWI. In WWI the British learned that battleships were too vulnerable to the Turkish battleship (faster and smaller than the British/French/USA version). That's when cruisers came into their own as a production ship. By WWII, there were heaps of cruisers floating around Europe/USA. By placing the destroyer where I have, it is the natural opposite to the U-boat/submarine combo. Destroyers were too small to challange battleships one-on-one, but after sonars/radars/radios, destroyers came into the fore as a brilliant defender of convoys.

This explains my reasoning for the ship placement. Yes, I know there were some of these ships before the time I placed them, but they came into their own at these points as a ship worth building. Hope this clears that up.

On the AI naval ability, I'll be looking into this in more detail later. I'm throwing some ideas around my head. The AI builds cruisers over battleships not from strength, but because I forgot to move cruiser within it's build lists. So preference is given to cruisers over battleships. This will change.

	20-04-2002 01:45									#17
	my $0.02 Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hi Dale,

Just wanted to give you my 2 cents. I'm on my second game with the mod and again, you did a great job. My first game I played on medium difficulty with 8 civs and a standard sized map. I did the complete warmonger thing, and really didn't have much difficulty in taking the world. I'm now playing deity/impossible level and am in a fight for my very survival. One thing that I've noticed so far is that you can not be at peace in this mod. The AI will attack you without any warning. This is great just because it forces us to stay on our toes, but it also has it's drawbacks. In the time of WW1 and WW2 a great many alliances were formed. The AI in general is almost pointless to talk to IMO, because you can give it the world in gifts for 20 turns straight, and it will continue to dislike you and attack you just for fun on the 21st. I found this out the hard way when I was sandwiched between England and Scotland. England had attacked me, and all of my resources were being consumed with holding them off, so I started bribing Scotland, but to no avail. They attacked me!! So I had the evil bast$rds coming at me from both sides!! I was able to spread my self out well enough to hold them off, and Now they are both only shells of there former might

This brings me to something else that I've noticed, The AI does a great job of stacking units and coming after the human, But in doing so I've noticed that they often leave their cities unprotected, with out a single unit in the garrison. I'm not saying that is a bad thing mind you, because it comes as a much needed breather at times

Last edited by centrifuge on 20-04-2002 at 01:58

	20-04-2002 02:36									#18
	Re: my $0.02 Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by centrifuge This brings me to something else that I've noticed, The AI does a great job of stacking units and coming after the human, But in doing so I've noticed that they often leave their cities unprotected, with out a single unit in the garrison. I'm not saying that is a bad thing mind you, because it comes as a much needed breather at times

That's frency so I wonder if I reconsider to include it as standart in the next version of GoodMod, and I already decided to plug it in as a tempory sollution until I can finish my own script that moves the AI in transports, stack its units and might for the AI to go on its AI and human opponents.

-Martin

	20-04-2002 05:48									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

This is the one issue with Frenzy (the AI vacating cities) that I would love to see fixed/adjusted. Peter is currently looking at the Frenzy code - however, he has yet to figure out how this can be fixed. I am hoping though...and if anyone else with SLIC ability wants to look at the coding, they are more than welcome to do so to see if something can be done.

Still, given the fact that an-overly aggressive AI is making the game a challenge can be seen as a good thing.

BTW, the hate factor for the AI to start a war thru Frenzy can be adjusted to different levels.

	22-04-2002 04:21									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

One of the two main changes for the next update, revolves around getting the frenzy script to ignore AI defense units. I'm working on a AI naval improver script as well. I'll fill you in on details when I've got a more stable script.

	22-04-2002 08:48									#21
	Tired of ads?

Maybe some input from the SLICers out there. Here's the psydocode for the new AI naval improver script I'm working on. What do you guys think?

code:

AI naval improver:
- Makes sure AI spreads its naval builds across all good attacking ships 
(in WAW that's battleships, cruiser, subs and destroyers).
- Makes the AI stack naval units except transport ships to create fleets.


// Globals
//////////

int_t ShipFlag;

HandleEvent(BeginTurn) pre {
	ShipFlag = 0;
}

// Make 1/4 battleships, 1/4 cruisers, 1/4 submarines, 1/4 destroyers
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

HandleEvent(CreateUnit) pre {
	Check if non-human player & alive;
		Check if AI built a naval unit;
			Check if AI built a cruiser and ShipFlag == 0;
				NumBships = number of AI battleships;
				NumCruiser = number of AI cruisers;
				NumBCruiser = number of AI battlecruisers;
				NumTCruisers = NumCruiser + NumBCruiser;
				NumSubs = number of AI submarines;
				NumUboats = number of AI uboats;
				NumTSubs = NumSubs + NumUboats;
				NumDestroyers = number of AI destroyers;
				Check which of NumBships, NumTCruisers, NumTSubs & NumDestroyers is lowest;
					Change the ship being built to the "lowest";
					ShipFlag = 1;
					Create the new unit;
					Stop running this script;
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

// Stack naval units
////////////////////

HandleEvent(BeginTurn) pre {
	Check if non-human player & alive;
		Cycle through all units;
			Check if naval unit and not a transport ship;
				Get unit's location;
				Get number of units at location;
				If more than 1 naval unit at location
					Check if location is a city;
						Move naval units except transport ships out 1 square;
						Stack units;
					Else if location is not a city;
						Stack units;
					}
				Else if only 1 naval unit at location
					If found nearest naval unit/stack under 12 within 5 squares
						Move to that square;
						Stack units;
					Else if not found naval unit/stack within 5 squares
						Leave unit be;
					}
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

	22-04-2002 10:21									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

And here's the psydocode for the new AI army improver code....

code:

AI army improver:
- Make AI create 8 large army stacks, at least 5 units big.
- Make AI keep these stacks within 2 of the capital.
- Make AI move stacks towards enemy cities.
- Make AI move stacks towards enemy units.
- Make AI replenish dead stacks.
- Make AI place stacks on transports and move towards enemy shoreline.

// Globals
//////////

int_t ArmyStatus[256];		// 0 - dead, 1 - less than 5 units, 2 - alive, 3 - warpathing same continent, 4 - warpathing diff continent, 5 - transports
location_t ArmyLocs[256];

// Moving 8 stacks
//////////////////

HandleEvent(BeginTurn) 'keep stacks at home' pre {
	Check if non-human player & alive;
		Cycle through 8 armies;
			Check if army exists on same continent as capital and not war-pathing or transported;
				Check if army location more than 2 away from AI capital;
					Un-entrench army;
					Move army towards capital;
				Else if within 2 squares of capital;
					Cancel orders;
					Stack army;
					Entrench army;
				}
			Else if not on same continent as capital;
				Change army status to 0;
			}
		}
	}
}

// War-pathing
//////////////

HandleEvent(BeginTurn) 'war-pathing' pre {
	Check if non-human player & alive;
		Check if at war with someone other than barbs;
			Check if any armies on the same continent as enemy;
				Check if any army stack is next to an enemy city or unit/s on the same continent;
					Bombard enemy city or unit/s;
					Attack enemy city or unit/s;
				}
				Check for army stacks closest to an enemy city and on the same continent;
					Move army stacks closer to enemy city;
				}
				Check for two other stacks closest to enemy unit/s and on same continent;
					Move army stacks closer to enemy unit/s;
				}
			Else if no armies on the same continent as enemy;
				Check for less than 2 stacks being transported or warpathing diff continent;
					Move army stack towards nearest friendly coastal city to capital;
				Check for army stacks next to 3 transport ships;
					Move army stack onto transport ships;
					Stack transport ships;
				Check for 3 transport ships with army stack;
					Stack transport ships;
					Move transport ships to closest enemy coastal city;
				Check for 3 transport ships with army stack next to nearest enemy coastal city;
					Unload transport ships next to nearest enemy coastal city;
				Check for three empty transport ships;
					Move transport ships towards the closest friendly coastal city to capital;
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

// Creating 8 stacks
////////////////////

HandleEvent(BeginTurn) 'create stacks' pre {
	Check if non-human player & alive;
		Cycle through existing cities;
			Check if any "attack" units at city location;
				Cycle through "attack" units at city location;
					Check for first available army under 5 units;
						Move unit to army location;
					Else if all over 5 units;
						Check for the smallest of the 8;
							Move the unit to the smallest army location;
						}
					}
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

Once again, any comments welcome.

	22-04-2002 22:15									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The problem with the transports that I can see is that I didn't found a function that checks if a unit is be transported, I didn't find a function that returns the cargo data either, maybe the units in a transport are counted as units in cell than it wouldn't be a problem to check if a ship has cargo.

-Martin

	22-04-2002 22:20									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I'm no programmer, but that looks like some ambitious code, Dale

I'm looking forward to some great naval battles. . .

	23-04-2002 06:38									#25
	Put an end to popups!

Martin:

I'll be using arrays to keep track of army locations, and a simple check on that location should tell me if there's three transports on the loc or not.

Leonidas:

Well, we've got the time eh? Just hope I can count on some beta testers when I get something running.

	05-05-2002 08:56									#26
	Suffering from ads?

Hi,

I've just started playing your WAW 1.04 for only a few days, but so far it seems promising (aside from various details and balancing issues ).

There're a few things I've noticed that you may be able to shed some light on. First, whenever I click the science report button (the one on the wheel-menu, not the choose advance to research one), the game will freeze.

Secondly, in combat situation the AI throws settler units into the fray. They're not a stack of a settler and an escort unit scouting the area and trying to find a suitable site for a new city, but an offense force. Those stacks attack. Other time, it's spy or politician. I could see the logic in these if you program the AI to include stealth-detector, but settlers?

	05-05-2002 16:30									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by azalae Secondly, in combat situation the AI throws settler units into the fray. They're not a stack of a settler and an escort unit scouting the area and trying to find a suitable site for a new city, but an offense force. Those stacks attack. Other time, it's spy or politician. I could see the logic in these if you program the AI to include stealth-detector, but settlers?

That is a real problem, I noticed this that the AI is stacking its settlers into an attack army. From my observation these armies weren't able to attack. Frenzy could be the reason for it that these stacks attack, but I am not shure if I understood the code correctly than frenzy will only move the armies to the human and finally it is up to the AI to attack. The stack algorithm of frenzy is a little bit simple but does not group any settlers into an army, that does the AI on its own. Therefore I started to write script that should regroup the AI's armies. If a settler is in than ungroup and group every single unit in that should be grouped. Unfortunatly I got huge stacks this way that prevented ship loading, therefore I couldn't add this code in a working state to GoodMod v.0.99. In the meanwhile I was able to write a loading algorithm. So that I am near to a working version.

-Martin