03-04-2001 09:42									#1
	Yes!!! Civ 3 in 2001! Well, according to FGNOL and Infogrames... Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

According a semi-reliable site, The Fastest Games News Online, Civ3 is coming in Q42001. This according to Infogrames release schedule. So, this is good, but maybe bad. Let's hope Infogrames isn't a stupid arrogant publisher w/ the balls to rush release a game that is the quality of Civ3. That could be bad. Who knows, maybe they've discussed w/ Firaxis though and agreed on Q4. Be interesting to see what Dan Magaha has to say about this. Lemme guess, "Firaxis has not yet announced a date..." Well anyhow, just thought I should post the link here...

--Mike "Lumpy"
My System Rig @ AnandTech
"If breakin' balls had calories in it, I'd be the phattest guy in the world, cuz dat's all youze do is break my balls!"
AIM: DBZichiban
ICQ: 101573806


[This message has been edited by fluxcapacitor (edited April 02, 2001).]

	03-04-2001 01:41									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

and chips&bits has similar date for 2 years now....


dont get into the release date games guys.....
been there done that and it's not always fun

	03-04-2001 02:42									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Firaxis has not yet announced a date for Civilization III.

(sorry, I just couldn't resist) =)


In all seriousness, though, we haven't. And until you hear it from us, please don't get caught up in the release date lottery fever. As soon as we commit to a release date, you will get official word from us.

Thanks,


Dan
Firaxis Games, Inc.

	03-04-2001 05:27									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Anything sooner than Q42002 is too early. Think about it. Even if the game is fairly stable now, we've already seen that very little polish has gone into it (by choice, of course). This would include playtesting outside a dozen or so people. So, towards the end of this year, they begin to put CDs in the beta testers hands (this is MY dream, of course). Then, they give the Beta team 3 complete cycles (patches, if you will)...meawhile the art and sound guys keep doing cooler stuff.

So by Q42002 you'd have one hell of a game. Converesly (and this is what I fear will happen), we'll have Civ3 in Q42001 and have to patch the damn thing for a year...
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited April 02, 2001).]

	03-04-2001 09:43									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

YIN26 QUOTE: "This would include playtesting outside a dozen or so people."

DOH! There goes that yin again! ;-)

	03-04-2001 12:17									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

LOL!

Yes, the Broken Record Yin is acceptable (heck, predictable). But the Broken Civ3 is NOT!

	03-04-2001 15:33									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hmm, don't Firaxis need a major cash cow like yesterday? (Off course I have no clue at all how much the civil war series is selling in the US...) They just cancelled Dinosaurs. And they cancelled pretty late, which means that it cost at the very least 1-2Million dollars. Probably more.

Offcourse a bad civ III would be a cash cow, but it would most likely be the last cash cow. So, how heavily do they weight short term gain against long term gain in an industry that is highly competitive and not forgiving at all? (Actually it is forgiving, to the large houses which have cash enough to bully magazines. *cough* Westwood *cough*)

I hope for a great Civ III, but I am an old cynic, so I'll settle for a decent civ III.

	04-04-2001 09:06									#9
	Remove this text

I'm with Yin on this one. I don't need a bug-ridden rush release (ToT, anyone?). I want it done right, even if that means having to wait longer for this game that I'm seriously dying to have.

	04-04-2001 00:10									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

My two cents: The company should prioritize. Let's say they've got a great idea for a new "feature" that would, if implemented properly, make gameplay a lot more fun. Whatever it is. Unit formations, maybe, or an environmental "nuclear winter" effect, or something. Now, let's say they can't quite get it to work, and they know they won't be able to get it 100% ready and bug-free by Christmas 2001.

Okay. Now, the solution is to take all these unfinished features, assuming they're not absolutely essential (like build queues or borders, for example), and save them for the "add-on" game sometime in late 2002. Every game has an add-on these days, from Alpha Centauri to Homeworld. I certainly expect to have one. And I'll buy it, no matter what.

I would suggest that any fancy 3D terrain effects should be put on hold until the add-on game. We don't really need them, as nice as they would be, and they're not vital. Another appropriate suggestion would be a feature to play customized MP3's instead of generic Civ music. It's something that would add variety to gaming experience, but it's just a luxury, so save it for the add-on.

And the great thing about this strategy is this: Now you have a whole year to collect player comments on all sorts of things. You've got a year to hone and perfect things like culture, resources, borders, the bargaining table, siege tactics, and customization. The add-on game can tweak these systems into perfection. (Just like The Conquerors made Age of Kings into the best real-time combat game ever .)

	04-04-2001 00:33									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think they genuinely dont know when they will release it. They havent released a game in a while and i suspect they do need a cash cow. So if the game looks decent (not enough bugs to wipe out Sids reputation) they will release in 4q2001. do a patch, and then an Xpack with additional features. OTOH, if the internal testing shows the game to be buggy to the extreme, they will hold off and might even try Yins large public beta. While Yins idea sounds good, i suspect they can release a decent game without it, and will be under financial pressure to do so.

	04-04-2001 05:34									#12
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

LOL! Yes, I guess I am a bit hopeless at times. But let me clarify. I WANT FIRAXIS TO MAKE TONS OF MONEY! I know I come on a bit strong at times, but I honestly, truly want Firaxis to have such a huge hit with Civ3 that they are rolling in money. This will allow them to do amazing things on the x-pack and NEXT game.

But I honestly doubt the "early release...patch patch patch" strategy is going to get them very far. Of course, I'm not saying anything will be "seriously" wrong with Civ3 even if it gets a X-mas 2001 release. But it almost certainly will have the kinds of issues that we hardcore players find quite serious. Questions of imbalance. Infinite range missiles. Incorrect calculations of bonuses and so forth.

I realize, of course, some of those things are very, very hard to find until the game is released in the wild, so to speak. So if all else fails, I will head the Civ3 Bug Hunt project so we can efficiently and productively maximize the benefit of those first few patches.

	04-04-2001 09:56									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I hope the game will be finish by Christmas this year with no bugs. Yin what is being said about the problem going on about a thousand mile south of you. If those boys don’t get busy and release our Sailors we may not have to worried when Sid release the game. There may not be a whole lot of people alive to buy it. I know that being in Korea right now may not be the safes place to be if they start shooting.
BTW I did Pusan Christmas 1963 and saw Pohan from the water early Jan. 64. It was cold.

------------------

	05-04-2001 08:18									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

A game with no bugs? Wow -- that's possible?

But, seriously, I am optimistic about this upcoming sequel, even if there is a minor bug.

	06-04-2001 09:38									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

A good game is worth waiting for. Consider poor Plato. He envisioned the first Civilization game in his "Republic," but never got to see it. It's sort of fun to imagine they did have some version of a primitive board game that built empires and cultures.
I quote from Book II, around 369C, when he discusses culture and justice with Adeimantos:
Plato: ""Now then, let us imagine that we make our city from the beginning. Our need will make it, as it seems."
Adeimantos: "Of course."
"Well, first indeed and greatest of our needs is the provision for food that we may live and be."
"Assuredly."
" Second, the need of housing."
"That is true."
"The next thing to ask is, how the city shall suffice all this provision. Will not one be a farmer, one a builder, one a weaver? Shall we add a shoemaker to the list and someone else to look ater the body's needs?"
Doesn't this sound a lot like Civ planning?
Submitted for your amusement.

	06-04-2001 10:35									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

joseph1944: I sent you a personal message about Korea and China. As for a relatively bugless Christmas release, sounds great to me. I just don't think it can be done that fast, and I have plenty of other games going while they do this right.