15-04-2002 19:40									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Goingonit I think that Patkis' thread a while ago about Europeans being anti-Semitic deserves some thought...

What I said was that Anti-semitism existed during the period of WW2 not only in Germany but in other countries of Europe too.

Don't misquote me.

I am positive that some americans use the pretext of anti-semitism in Europe in order to support Israel no matter the war crimes it may have done.

I think this is very dangerous.

I am also tired to listen to this alldged anti-semitism in Europe when it is apparent that there is a large anti-muslim, anti-palestinian feeling in the US.

	15-04-2002 21:48									#32
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All terrorist attacks are contemptible.

This includes what the IDF has been doing in the Occupied Territory.

	15-04-2002 21:52									#33
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 What I said was that Anti-semitism existed during the period of WW2 not only in Germany but in other countries of Europe too. Don't misquote me. I am positive that some americans use the pretext of anti-semitism in Europe in order to support Israel no matter the war crimes it may have done. I think this is very dangerous. I am also tired to listen to this alldged anti-semitism in Europe when it is apparent that there is a large anti-muslim, anti-palestinian feeling in the US.

Sorry to do this, but:

quote: Northern European's latent racism I have the conviction that northern europeans are inherently racist. They can't help it, it is in their mentality. Whereas they will pretend they are not and they will try to show that they are not they will always believe it deep down and will always show it by little things despite if they want to show it or not. A greek will talk frankly to the other person and if they both sit on the same table and eat and drink and laugh without prejudisms and without superiority complexes. a nothern european on the other hand will be much more reserved towards the other person and will even subconsciously always take pride in what he believes is his "superior" race. He will be polite towards the other if they sit on the same table but his racists feelings will always persist even if he believes they are not. I think the northern europeans take pride on feeling "superior" This of course does not go for all of them but for the majority. The only exception to this rule are scandinavians

	15-04-2002 21:57									#34
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No problem.

Although you took something off a thread which was 10 pages long and in which I explained over and over what I meant so that there can be no misunderstandings.

Coming to the point though, how does this show that there is anti-semitism in Europe?

	15-04-2002 22:05									#35
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Whoa, massive threadjacking here on all sides.

Tunisia is another country with a pro-western dictatorship. It also has one of the few surviving Jewish communities in the Islamic world, the other ones being in Iran, Morocco, and a few scattered cities in central asia. So if there was going to be an attack, there was only a short list to choose from.

	15-04-2002 22:38									#36
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 What I said was that Anti-semitism existed during the period of WW2 not only in Germany but in other countries of Europe too.

Very true.

quote: Don't misquote me.

I never would.

quote: I am positive that some americans use the pretext of anti-semitism in Europe in order to support Israel no matter the war crimes it may have done.

When you have proof, not groundless accusations, let me know, because in 50 years of fighting Muslims, the Jews have yet to commit a war crime.

quote: I think this is very dangerous.

It's extremly dangerous, and getting worse instead of better.
The alarming anti-jewish hate crimes in Europe and elsewhere are mounting alamingly.

What are YOU doing about it?

quote: I am also tired to listen to this alldged anti-semitism in Europe when it is apparent that there is a large anti-muslim, anti-palestinian feeling in the US.

We watch, and we see Pals mindlessly hating anytthing Jewish...we see Jews saying, begging, to live in peace...and Pals responding with DEATH TO JEWS, DRIVE THEM INTO THE SEA, THEY DON'T BELONG HERE.

They don't belong in the very place they came from.

Pat my friend, you need a serious objectivity transplant.

	15-04-2002 22:46									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 When you have proof, not groundless accusations, let me know, because in 50 years of fighting Muslims, the Jews have yet to commit a war crime.

Dier Yassin, the actions at Kibya, etc.

	15-04-2002 22:56									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Dier Yassin, the actions at Kibya, etc.

Deir Yassin was in 48, not in 50 year span, but you got me on Kibya, Ben Gurion ordered it as retaliation for Arab attacks.

	15-04-2002 22:57									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 It's extremly dangerous, and getting worse instead of better. The alarming anti-jewish hate crimes in Europe and elsewhere are mounting alamingly.

These are exceptions. It is like comparing attacks (and serious ones) in muslim women living in the US the days after OBL attack. (insults, even beating and one murder IIRC).

quote: What are YOU doing about it?

I will do something if it happens in Greece.
In France they held a huge rally against these attacks.

quote: We watch, and we see Pals mindlessly hating anytthing Jewish...we see Jews saying, begging, to live in peace...and Pals responding with DEATH TO JEWS, DRIVE THEM INTO THE SEA, THEY DON'T BELONG HERE.

Still the average palestinian woman and man for that matter just wants to live in peace in its own country, something that is not being given to them.

	15-04-2002 23:07									#40
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Besides I think that the Jewish people (some of them) and especially those living in Canada or the US like to exploit the Holocaust to get sympathy or even absolution for Israel's current policies.
The fact is that noone is buying it, as they should not, except for citizens of the New World
And that's because jews have absolutely no danger living in Europe. If they had, they wouldn't be here.

	15-04-2002 23:52									#41
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so let me get this straight. You're basing your claim that europe is safe on the fact that there are jews in Europe?

	15-04-2002 23:54									#42
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Europe is safe because they're no Jews in Europe.

I partly agree with paiktis, but I think that is absolutely no justification for any feelings against the majority of those people. Though I must admit I don't trust their officials. Presidents, ministers, travel guides...

	15-04-2002 23:57									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Europe is safe because they're no Jews in Europe.

yeah man, I mean, who wou;d want these scheming bastards around him, only caring about themselves

Sorry Dal, but one good troll deserves another. You know what i meant.

	16-04-2002 06:50									#44
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Besides I think that the Jewish people (some of them) and especially those living in Canada or the US like to exploit the Holocaust to get sympathy or even absolution for Israel's current policies.

Nonsense.
We are appalled at Europe's total disreguard of the lives and rights of jews, an old story in Europe that continues to this day.
I see you have found a new way to discriminate against jews, claim they act as perpetual victims to gain sypathy.
If you truly believe this, your not much of a person, so I hope you don't.

quote: The fact is that noone is buying it, as they should not, except for citizens of the New World

Spoken like a true anti-semite.
Ignore the facts and blame the Jews, it's always their fault.

Not one European leader expressed one iota of sypaty for the passover murders, they only cared if Arafat had enough toilet paper!

Your such fair-minded and lovely people.

quote: And that's because jews have absolutely no danger living in Europe. If they had, they wouldn't be here.

They trusted Europe once, and 80% of them were carted off and killed.

And nothing has changed, judging by the Euro attitude that tries to justify any pal claims.

Let's review:

Pals refused to live in peace in 48 and combined with others to fight a genocidal war and lost.
54 years later the Europeans say the Pals were right.

You guys sure are sweet harts.

	16-04-2002 07:58									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger All terrorist attacks are contemptible. This includes what the IDF has been doing in the Occupied Territory.

Well since everything is morally equivalent, let's be sure not to forget the actions of the Chinese army and police in Tibet and many other areas as well.

	16-04-2002 08:28									#46
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quote: the Jews have yet to commit a war crime.

Don't also forget the massacres ordered by Jews in Lebanon in '82, even if they didn't directly participate.

quote: Besides I think that the Jewish people (some of them) and especially those living in Canada or the US like to exploit the Holocaust to get sympathy or even absolution for Israel's current policies.

VERY TRUE! It makes me sick. This bringing up of Holocaust guilt to shut anyone up that says anything about Israel. That and the whole PC garbage of saying 'anti-semite' to anyone that critisizes Israel's actions.

	16-04-2002 08:41									#47
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Could you guys take this threadjack somewhere else?

	16-04-2002 08:43									#48
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Why? Threadjacking is Poly's official sport .

Well, if I have to deal with the question... is this contest like 'Am I hot or not'? Because then both Sharon and Arafat would be NOT. I don't know about the Tunesian leader, though I guess some would say he's dreamy .

	16-04-2002 09:31									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Well since everything is morally equivalent, let's be sure not to forget the actions of the Chinese army and police in Tibet and many other areas as well.

Ah, what about various US actions? Say, Afganistan, Guatemala, Korea, Vietnam, treatment of US Japaneses during WWII, McCarthyism, slavery, etc.

This just shows the US has no moral basis of pointing accusing fingers at other people.

	16-04-2002 09:33									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Don't also forget the massacres ordered by Jews in Lebanon in '82, even if they didn't directly participate.

I'd actually like to see some evidence to back up this accusation. The most I've ever seen alleged is that they were ignorant of basic facts. Whether it was willful ignorance on thier part is up for debate.

	16-04-2002 09:40									#51
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Counterpunch:

quote: As defense minister in Menachem Begin's second government, Sharon was the commander who led the full dress 1982 assault on Lebanon, with the express design of destroying the PLO, driving as many Palestinians as possible to Jordan and making Lebanon a client state of Israel. It was a war plan that cost untold suffering, around 20,000 Palestinian and Lebanese lives, and also the deaths of over one thousand Israeli soldiers. The Israelis bombed civilian populations at will. Sharon also oversaw the infamous massacres at Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps. The Lebanese government counted 762 bodies recovered and a further 1,200 buried privately by relatives.

(Emphasis my own)

	16-04-2002 09:49									#52
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UR: Could you please pick a more biased account of events? Because your article provided no actual proof, circumstantial or otherwise, that Sharon or any other part of the Israeli cabinet specifically ordered the massacre. Which is what Imran said.

	16-04-2002 09:56									#53
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Seriously unbiased website there Urban Ranger

http://www.counterpunch.org/saidtruths.html

	16-04-2002 09:56									#54
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quote: I'd actually like to see some evidence to back up this accusation. The most I've ever seen alleged is that they were ignorant of basic facts. Whether it was willful ignorance on thier part is up for debate.

Well seeing how just about every country has condemned Israel for it (even the US under Reagan did), I don't think it is that far from the mark.

http://www.mediamonitors.net/drbenalofs1.html
http://aztlan.net/theaccused.htm

But of course Sharon can't have anything to do with it. He's one of the chosen Israelis, who just can't do anything wrong. Those Palestinians are always to blame.

edit: Add to the fact the Israeli commission said that his actions made him unfit to be Minister of Defense. So, as the first link asks, how can he be fit to be Prime Minister?

	16-04-2002 10:01									#55
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quote: Originally posted by cia Seriously unbiased website there Urban Ranger http://www.counterpunch.org/saidtruths.html

It's called an editorial, and it is all true.

	16-04-2002 10:01									#56
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No Imran,
The problem I have with defending the Palestinians is the ludicrousness of it.
Due to the occupation forced on them by losing in a war they started they feel the need to blow up civilians and not fight like guerillas. Follow that up with a 'police' force led by someone who arrests the people known to be terrorists and then lets them go a month later, while claiming he cannot stop the violent people for whom he writes the checks for explosives. How inane

	16-04-2002 10:01									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But of course Sharon can't have anything to do with it.

You do realize that you have a better chance of proving direct culpability of Sharon if you focus on his units actions at Kibya, don't you?

Thanks for the articles.

	16-04-2002 10:03									#58
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quote: You do realize that you have a better chance of proving direct culpability of Sharon...

Indirect culpability is still reprehensible. Especially since he knew what would happen with his actions.

quote: Due to the occupation forced on them by losing in a war they started they feel the need to blow up civilians and not fight like guerillas.

They are guerillas.

	16-04-2002 10:05									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui They are guerillas.

That probably depends on the group we're talking about.

	16-04-2002 10:12									#60
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Sorry, in my mind guerillas fight and destroy military targets except in the case they find 'civilian' spies in which case they may execute them.