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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
If this is not GUTS I don't know what it is.
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It seems kinda stupid to me. He could have been killed.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by MacTBone
Look, the best way to get people to stop joining groups like the KKK, is to ignore them. I live in Indiana, which IIRC is the bithplace of the Klan and they still have a mrach every couple of years. Everyone makes a big deal about it, but everything's legal. The best way to get your message across to these groups is an empty street.
I don't care what your message is, you have the same rights as everyone else. We don't have special laws requiring bigots to wear patches and we don't let people destroy other people's property no matter who you are. |
The KKK is believed to have originated in Jackson, Tennessee. It was a byproduct ( or maybe a waste product ) of the Civil War, founded in late 1865. It's original purpose was to counteract black civil rights and the encroachment of northener "scalawags", so why would it have originated in Indiana? By the early 1870s the US government became very concerned about its activities. The state governments of the former CSA were told in so many words that the end of reconstruction and the restoration of full rights in the south would be contingent on the suppression of the Klan. The southern states used reconstituted militia and the influence of prominent men like Robert E. Lee and quickly suppressed the Klan. Though a clandestine organization persisted for years the Klan rose out of obscurity in the 1920s by adding Catholics and immigrants to its list of enemies. This gave the Klan a common ground with northern bigots allowing the Klan the chance to open branches outside the south,
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Dr Strangelove
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I think it would help if we knew what this organization advocates and what the flags supposedly represented. During WWII the Nazis raised SS formations in many occupied countries, including Greece, and most of those formations adopted their own flags. Is that what these fellows were flying. Personally I think that Austria has the right idea, I have no problem with banning Nazis paraphenalia.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
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orange-
If I have a legitimate claim that I felt threatened by the guy, I have every right to act in my own defense.
Further, if he even touched me in the process of taking my flag, he assaulted me.
And finally, I have every right to protect my personal property from theft and destruction by any reasonable means (I can't kill the guy, but I can restrain him).
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MosesPresley
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My 2 cents.
I have lived in the US all of my life. I went through the so called liberal sixties to today, and fascism is alive and well here. People here love fascism. If you mention Hitler, they say "You know, he was crazy, but he had some good ideas." Hitler had the "final solution", we had "manifest destiny." Go figure.
So it doesn't surprise me that you will find little sympathy for that man from my fellow countrymen.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
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quote:
Uh, there's a difference between self defense and "I will beat the **** out of them" |
If he resists my defensive restraint I can do whatever is necessary to protect myself.
quote:
Not necessarily. Assault involves intend to harm YOU. Your property is not an extention of you. I could pat you on the back while saying hello, and you wouldn't have a right to hit me because of it. |
No, but if you steal my flag and try to destroy it I can hit you.
quote:
Difference between restraining someone and beating the **** out of them. |
See above - I can protect myself by any reasonable means.
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orange
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It doesn't matter what your name is!
Feb 2000
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
If he resists my defensive restraint I can do whatever is necessary to protect myself. |
 Yeah, sure. That'll hold up in court!
But your honor, he like, tried to break my half nelson, so I beat him to a bloody pulp. There's nothing in the constitution that forbids that, is there?
quote:
No, but if you steal my flag and try to destroy it I can hit you. |
I'm not so sure about that...i feel that you should report it to the police or attempt a citizens arrest. Restraint does not involve striking the person.
quote:
See above - I can protect myself by any reasonable means. |
yeah, reasonable, meaning you can't beat them up...and besides, property is not an extention of you. So you can't use that argument to protect your property. If you are assaulted, of course...but not if your property is taken from you.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
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quote:
Yeah, sure. That'll hold up in court!
But your honor, he like, tried to break my half nelson, so I beat him to a bloody pulp. There's nothing in the constitution that forbids that, is there? |
If I have him properly secured awaiting arrest so I can press charges, of course I can't pound on him. But if while attempting to recover my property he fights back, I have every right to break his nose.
quote:
I'm not so sure about that...i feel that you should report it to the police or attempt a citizens arrest. Restraint does not involve striking the person. |
Congratulations. I, on the other hand, would take the more direct - and legal - approach towards recovering my property.
quote:
yeah, reasonable, meaning you can't beat them up...and besides, property is not an extention of you. So you can't use that argument to protect your property. If you are assaulted, of course...but not if your property is taken from you. |
So if I pass you on the street and you pick my pocket I can't use physical force to recover it? Please 
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:18
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Yes I'm from Germany, and I find it an extreme insult how Americans (OK Spray, at least those who post there) can valeu their "natural right" to possess things higher than other people's right to live and not being botehred by facists. Guys (esp Floyd and some others, can't be arsed to read all of this reactionary BS), your opinions are an insult to all peoples of Europe, because we have indeed suffered from it a lot. And the fact you're so chilled and easy-going when it comes to national socialism is an extreme insult to the Israeli people and any Jes around the world as well. Hypocrisy! 
Sprayber - as a matter of fact, the majorit of all American posters on this board took side with national socialism or similar fascist / atuhoritarian regimes in comparison with communism. Their own reasoning was the higher importance for their damn rights (possession, right to shoot others blah blah) compared to other people's right to live in peace, and that is a shame. Selfishness!
I don't say all Americans are like that, but I think you guys are in the upper class of being able to think and draw real conclusions. And given how brainwashed some people hear appear at times( even some of those who I basically like and respect!), I'm afraid the MOST of Americans are even worse, but I won't even try and estimate that for I'd have no chance, just too little figures given  If I came across like generalizing, then sorry
The essence of laws against certain leanings is the protection of what we call a pluralist system. I can only repeat - it appears false by that, but it will last longer and it prevents very bad things from happening.
And if you don't agree, then discuss. I'm not trolling
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14-04-2002 06:58
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