16-04-2002 14:23									#1
	Best game so far Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hi,

after a couple of weeks lurking and collecting as much info/advice as possible I am currently engaged in my best game ever! My previous knowledege of CIV was back in the days of the Amiga and a 15minute wait for creating of the world, even then I was never very good.

After making many elementary mistakes. I'm gradually getting to understand how to counter the AI, but I'm still pretty rubish.

In my current game I am playing as the Romans on Regent level, after crushing my near neighbours the Greeks (with warriors upgraded to legion), I progressed to the English. After a crazy amount of AI alliances/broken alliances everybody on the continent was after the English, they were destroyed and I mopped up a few cities.

After a few reloads from wrong decisions, I started a war with the Eygptians. After some pillaging they have no steel and their horsemen/spearmen/longbows are being gradually overpowered by my Knights and Pikemen. (The year is aroung 600-700AD, can't check as I'm at work!)

So my question is, presuming I can wipe out the Eygptians I will control 2/3 of one super continent and France 1/3. France have access to Iron but are a bit behind in Tech (swordsmen/pikemen) but as usual have lots more culture than me. The remaining continent has 4 equally powerful (but half as powerful as me) AI civs. Should I:

1) Immediatley try to limit the power of France. I have tried attacking before (legion/horsemen) in attempt to capture/destroy Paris the result was fairly bloody also it is not possible for me to hold any of their cities because of culture flipping.

2) Push for a bit of a Tech lead, maybe upgrade my Knights to Cavalry then attack France, with the aim of destroying them/ raising their cities.

3) Ignore France and start to invade the second continent. This seems the hardest option in terms of logisitics, but also the option most likely to lead to a quick victory. Should I be trying to acquire any specific Techs before attempting this?


I'd appreciate any advice.

When I get home I'll upload the game, If anybody would like to take a look at it.

cheers,

Graeme

	16-04-2002 14:40									#2
	Put an end to popups!

This is of course my opinion, others may vary:

- Get rid of France. Completely. Make sure you are the only power at your own continent. Build your Forbidden Palace and jump your Palace to optimal places to max out your economy and commerce.

- Try to get a hold on the other continent. If you can grab 2-3 luxury cities with a harbor, that will be fine. Fight a short war for it if you need. Move enough military there to hold your forepost till reinforcements from mainland can arrive.

- Stay peaceful and build up your own continent, build roads/RRs and field improvements everywhere. Build Temples everywhere and Cathedrals in your core cities. Build Marketplaces everywhere (if you don't have them already) and Banks in your good cities (try to get Adam Smith's to make it cheap). Build Libraries and Universities in your core cities.

- This should have made you the biggest and richest dog with a solid tech lead. The rest depends on your taste. You may now choose either:
* Go for culture or diplomatic victory -or-
* Win by space race -or-
* Conquer the world (well, this you could have done without the stuff above, but you seem not to be a 100% warmonger or else you wouldn't ask this question) -or-
* Conquer and build up till below the Domination treshold (60%) and maximize happiness, to max out your score and win by Histograph.

Depends, if you have enough patience for a longer game with higher score, or if you want to end the game as soon as possible.

	16-04-2002 20:32									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You should probably take France out, but you may want to wait for Cavalry to do it. Are you in the tech lead, are you even, or are you buying tech from the AI? If you're in the lead, hold off for Mil. Tradition and run over France with Cavalry. Their musketeers will trigger a golden age for them, but Cavalry will allow you to overrun them so quickly it won't matter.

Otherwise, mass your Knights and start beating on them. If they get gunpowder while you're trying to kill them, however, you could be in serious trouble. Knights vs. Musketeers isn't pretty, and they will be in a golden age. I've done that, and it wasn't all that much fun. True, I had something like 12 cannons (captured catapults I upgraded) that I brought along, which really helped. So it can be done, just be aware that you could be in for a nasty fight. This is why you may want to wait for Cav.

-Arrian

	16-04-2002 20:55									#4
	Tired of ads?

Ah, the joys of a Civ forum!!

Both Sir Ralph and Arrian have noted propensities for continent domination.

I say: Treat Joan like the bee-atch she is!! Beat her to a bloody pulp, but leave her alive as a punching bag and vassal. Every time your attack units have relative strength, wage a war of punishment, but then extort everything you can for peace. Right now, I'd push for Cav, which will last until Nationalism.

Assuming your primary continent is big enough, I'd leave her with may be 5 cities, but try to take away her iron and horses.

As for the rest, I agree with Sir Ralph's advice, except that when you attack the next continent, do it with a lot of VERY strong units... at least Cav offense (most of whom will be elites) with cannon bombardment, and Rifleman defense. Culture flips could be a problem, so if you can take out the AI capitols first... raze them unless they have valuable GWs. As Sir Ralph said, the ones you want to try to capture and hold are then harbor cities.

	17-04-2002 08:04									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You are in the dominant position, so get a small tech lead, selling perhaps every other tech to the AI to get money. Then rush France with Cavalry and buy temples in cities as you take them. One temple goes a long way in stopping culture flipping, and you should have plenty of money from selling those techs. Buy libraries even. You could get a few GLs, build up some wonders, and start turning around the culture as well, so you have even less of a problem. Depending on how long it takes you to destroy France, either send your vet cavalry and take out another civ, or quietly gain a bigger tech lead. Or both. Then, depending on how evil you are, you can either get a diplomatic victory,
Space victory, Modern Armor conquest, or ICBM the whole world. ICBMs are what I resort to when I am bored and just wanna roll in the victory.

	17-04-2002 08:11									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

killify france. their musketeers will be a little bit of annoyance in the future, and you cant trust the AI anyway. only one can win.

	17-04-2002 10:04									#7
	Tired of ads?

Some very good points from our esteemed colleagues.

Foremost, deny France any Saltpeter.

Also, to the extent that you will capture French cities rather than raze them, you need to do two things. One, upon capture, either empty the city of your own units and re-capture in case of a flip, and / or two, build something cultural ASAP. In certain cases, I will disband a unit to get the build started and buy the rest (usually a temple), or alternatively I will wait one full turn for the buy.

I maintain, however, leave France alive. In fact, lately, I've been capturing cities on my primary continent and selling / giving them to AI civs from elsewhere. This gives me an assortment of localized easy wars to choose from.

BTW, don't think that I am advising total warfare... you will find it both necessary and satisfying to build out your own cities to the max in happiness and in research.

Lastly, use warfare to generate GLs... get the really good GWs, and use Armies... it's fun.

	17-04-2002 15:50									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

rpodos is back!