16-04-2002 18:54									#1
	Civ3 1.21 Chat This Friday!! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

2 Months and 4 days after the second, the third civ3 patch will be released this Friday, April 19, 2002 and we'll be right here share our experiences from the changes.

As usual, Firaxians will be joining us to analyze the choices that have been made by the team.

The details...
- Date: Friday, April 19th, 2002
- Time: 16:00est (21:00gmt)
- Location: #Apolyton channel, DALnet network
- Access via: any irc client(like mIRC) or java applet at
http://apolyton.net/misc/chat/room.shtml

Be there!

Last edited by MarkG on 16-04-2002 at 19:01

	16-04-2002 19:11									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Sure I'll be there. Hope I'm ready with my tools update 'till then.

	16-04-2002 19:25									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Sure.... Markos, I'm still upset by you picking exactly the time when I'm out of action . If it was 70 minutes earlier . Well, anyway, I'm getting cable friday and will be busy testing the connection... and having a good sleep.

	17-04-2002 04:11									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hope the discussion won't be about Firaxis including the wrong Editor again.

	17-04-2002 20:24									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm gonna be there to complain about the missing minimap in the editor!!!

	17-04-2002 22:10									#6
	Time Check Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Small point:
The U.S. is now on Daylight Saving Time, which is GMT -4, not -5. So if the chat's at 16:00 EDT (which is what I think you're trying to say ) then it's actually 20:00 GMT.

	17-04-2002 23:31									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, but Europe is also at daylight saving time! So its 21.00 GMT!

	17-04-2002 23:38									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well, wouldn't it still be 20:00 GMT, but you're just +1 GMT on Summer Time, thus making it appear to be 21:00 your local time, since GMT never changes? ;-)

	18-04-2002 00:12									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Oh no, does this mean Kabul is no longer 9 and a half hours ahead of me!?

*Ignores them and pretends that GMT changes with daylight savings time, along with EST, to keep from going insane.*

	18-04-2002 00:17									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

Besides which: "All times are GMT -5 hours. The time now is 15:13." (So sayeth the forums)

And it is, according to my clocks. So, :P

	18-04-2002 00:38									#11
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Kirel Well, wouldn't it still be 20:00 GMT, but you're just +1 GMT on Summer Time, thus making it appear to be 21:00 your local time, since GMT never changes? ;-)

My point is: It IS 21:00 GMT!

	18-04-2002 01:21									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hehe, no need to get upset. )
I'm just wondering whether GMT actually shifts one hour ahead on Daylight Saving, or whether GMT stays the same and the time zones shift in relation to it. According to the official Navy timekeeping site, EDT is -4 GMT. Therefore, it looks like GMT does not change. If the EU is on Summer Time, then what is normally GMT must change to +1 GMT to stay ahead of the United States.
I guess it's just shorthand to say we're still -5 GMT (like the forums say) and Europe is still GMT. Whatever, just wondering.

	18-04-2002 07:45									#13
	Remove this text

Wouldn't it make much more sense to convene the chat on April 26... giving us a week to use...

especially with things like AI Tech trading it's going to take us a while to 'user test' the changes.

I think it is ridiculous trying to dicuss the patch the day it is released.

	18-04-2002 08:45									#14
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The Chat is a good thing. It'll give us something to do while waiting for an open download connection.

	18-04-2002 16:56									#15
	Chat Timing is Perfect Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by exeter0 Wouldn't it make much more sense to convene the chat on April 26... giving us a week to use... especially with things like AI Tech trading it's going to take us a while to 'user test' the changes. I think it is ridiculous trying to dicuss the patch the day it is released.

The purpose of this chat is to praise Firaxis not to criticize the quality of the patch. History indicates the patch will be just another beta....and if you have time to play with it...yo will see that. By holding the chat tomorrow, we can all kiss Firaxis heineken and have no criticism from experience.

Hosanna Firaxis....we are not worthy!!

	18-04-2002 17:03									#16
	Got spare money?

last time the patch was released a day before the chat and i dont remember anything that would be the opposite of "firaxis praising".....

	18-04-2002 17:28									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Just because we would have a week to test the patch doesn;t necessarily mean that we will just have more time to think of things to complain about... I am hoping that we might have more time to appreciate it.

I don;t care if the chat is a kiss ass or a flame ass one... it's just that many of the changes are pretty complex gamplay ones... with subjective interpretations on how they affect game balance. To get much benefit from a chat it would be better to have sussed them all out before complainng or praising.

	19-04-2002 18:12									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

by MqsTout

quote: Questions people may want to ask during the chat: Did you guys undo the previous change that allowed the CD-ROM to be in any CD-Drive? What exactly is the use of "set active player" in the editor? How does "abandon city" work? How does this differ from alternate tactics? What motived the change that removes the ability to change the default bic file and have it load with a saved game? This was used by modders and causal editor users to correct and refine numbers. It's not like you can just start a game up in the modern era to see how your tanks will fare seiging against new defensive numbers on infantry. In your testing, how does destructive bombarding affect the game? AI-to-AI trade rate can't be set less than 100%. Why not? Bombard range and operational range are still capped at 8. Why not let the modders do what they will? The readme states that there were optimizations in the generation routine. Were these just speed, or should we expect slight changes in our maps? Were there any actual changes to AI with this patch that weren't mentioned in the readme? What was your reasoning behind the removal of the 'multi' cheat? Modders legitimately used that to test their numbers. Why still no minipmap in editor? Why still no civ-specific starting points? No complete listing of keyboard shortcuts in the game yet, nor complete mouse-accessibility for all feaures? The new editor looks like it's another step towards a real scenario editor. Can you slip us any information? Will it have the ability to add improvements/units? What can you tell us about "multiplayer is in development"? When you guys read the forums, do you take our editor-changes-as-possible-problem-fixes (such as the HP one, and the solutions to corruption and ICS) into consideration?

	19-04-2002 18:35									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Mark, you might wanna make that link in the other thread by MqsTout actually work Ta

Anyway Qs:

How has the self-destructing AI under Communism been addressed other than just reducing unhappiness penalties to 20 turns?

How does the AI now cope with us now being able to give units multiple AI strategies?

Has the AI been improved with regards to using artillery offensively?

	19-04-2002 23:11									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MarkG by MqsTout quote: Questions people may want to ask during the chat: AI-to-AI trade rate can't be set less than 100%. Why not? Uh oh, does this mean you can only increase AI trades? Bombard range and operational range are still capped at 8. Why not let the modders do what they will? Its always something, isn't it? Why still no civ-specific starting points? Because just because. The new editor looks like it's another step towards a real scenario editor. Can you slip us any information? Will it have the ability to add improvements/units? Of course not. Too easy considering Gramphos has already done it. What can you tell us about "multiplayer is in development"? When you guys read the forums, do you take our editor-changes-as-possible-problem-fixes (such as the HP one, and the solutions to corruption and ICS) into consideration?

Right

Sorry I'm so negative, but been burned twice.

	20-04-2002 02:22									#21
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Is anybody on the chat?

	20-04-2002 03:01									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I can't get in

	20-04-2002 03:29									#23
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Chating at this momment!

	20-04-2002 16:24									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

When will you be posting the chat log?
Edit: Looks like I've found it (partly) already. I knew it...I should have better looked before asking.

Last edited by Dwarf Lord on 20-04-2002 at 16:51

	22-04-2002 00:41									#25
	Suffering from ads?

GMT never changes.

In Spring Summer, I am - 5 hours, in Fall, Winter, I am -6 hours.

Pick up Coordinated Universal Time at 2.5, 5, 10, 15, 20 mHz on the short wave dial.
Usually 10 or 15 mHz works.

	22-04-2002 18:47									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

mark, any chance to get a chat transcript? my connection on friday was abyssmal....

	22-04-2002 18:51									#27
	Remove this text

asap

as you may have noticed, we had some small changes around here...