16-04-2002 23:29									#1
	Suggestion for a new Cabinet position Tired of ads?

I suggest that a new Cabinet position be created whose purpose is to ensure the security of the People. I would refer to the position as "Minister of State Security."

Currently, the functions of the Minister of State Security are handled separately by several other advisors, if this proposal were adopted, those functions would be placed under the control of the Minister of State Security.

Currently, the Military Advisor handles all military-related topics. However, it can be expected that the Military Advisor may sometimes be more focused on attacking our enemies rather than ensuring the security of the People. The Minister of State Security should be in charge of determining how many and what kind of units should be defending our cities to ensure the protection of our People, not the Military Advisor. The Military Advisor should handle only the issues related to the mobile/offensive military - Stationary, defensive-only units should be under the control of the MSS. In this manner, both the offensive and defensive sides of the coin will be represented fairly.

In addition, at this time, diplomats and spies are given their orders by the Foreign Advisor. While it makes sense for diplomacy and the establishment of embassies to be handled by the Foreign Advisor, and it makes excellent sense for our diplomats to gather information for us, it is absurd for the Foreign Advisor, who is in charge of relations with other nations, to also be the chief spymaster of our civilization. The Minister of State Security, not the Foreign Advisor, should be in charge of using Spies to determine the offensive capabilities of our enemies, and to undermine our enemies offensive capabilities by stealing technology, destroying enemy buildings, and so forth, in order to promote the interests of State Security.

Summary:

The Minister of State Security would be in charge of defensive use of military units, determining how many and what kind of units should defend what cities, and possibly other important locations, and would be in charge of issuing orders to Spies to ensure the security of the state.

The Foreign Advisor would still have control of Diplomats, and the MSS would be able to advise him on their use if the MSS wanted something done with them, but the MSS would have control of Spies, and the FA would have to advise the MSS if he wanted something done by Spies.

The Military Advisor would no longer be in charge of defensive units, and would focus on the training and use of the offensive military, leaving the defensive military to the MSS.

What do you think?

Last edited by Shadowlord on 16-04-2002 at 23:50

	17-04-2002 01:05									#2
	Got spare money?

NAY!

Part of the duty of the Supreme Military Commander is to both bully the neighbors and quell unrest at home.

A minister whose sole duty is to ensure domestic defense (and martial law as per gov't type) has a snoozer of a job. He would have to closely coordinate with the Military Commander on what units to request, to use, and where. A job much more easily done in one head than by committee.

Regarding the use of diplos and spies, I think they still should take orders from the foreign advisor. Their primary duties are acquisition of information. Wartime duty could simply be requested by the Supreme Military Commander.

	17-04-2002 02:15									#3
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I would have been surprised had you not opposed this plan, since, after all, you are the Military Advisor, and it would appear to decrease your power, but I make this suggestion for the good of the State. I urge you to reconsider.

Again, to be 100% clear, I believe the Military Advisor should be in charge only of offensive military use, not defense, as that could lead to conflicts of interest which would be dangerous for the State and the People's Safety. I am not saying the Military Advisor cannot defend his own troops, of course, or that he cannot send defensive ships with our transports. No, that would be ridiculous! I am simply saying that someone other than the person in charge of sending troops out to attack our foes should handle defensive arrangements for our cities.

And as for co-ordinating military units, it will not be as complicated as you describe.

The Minister of State Security would simply request the construction of x units for the defense of a city, and they would be built and moved (and homed, if so needed) as soon as possible. The Minister of State Security's main job would be ensuring that our cities are always adequately protected, and of looking at our enemies and determing how likely it is that they will attack soon, how capable they are of damaging us, and whether it would be a good idea to recommend a pre-emptive strike (Although the Military Advisor would have to approve it, of course.) rather than waiting until we are sneak-attacked to say "Oh! Supreme Military Commander, I need some troops to defend our capital!"

If this is approved, I would predict that the Minister of State Security would actually cooperate with the Military Advisor in terms of determining what nations are ripe for conquest and informing the Military Advisor what cities are weakest, and so forth.

	17-04-2002 02:27									#4
	Remove this text

My concern is having two ministers requesting from the prez/people similar things. The war ministry would want elephants and legions, the defense ministry would want pikemen and warriors. Instead of one minister deciding the priority, the two would actually be (potentially) at odds. This added to the other ministers wanting caravans, marketplaces, diplomats, settlers, or wonders.

The polls ultimately decide what is suggested to the prez. The minister makes suggestions, the people support or reject. As the two military ministries would necessarily need to work in tandem, I just think it would be easier to have one minister. Otherwise people may end up voting for both elephants and pikemen, while there are only resources for one.

If a war hungry minister leads too many bad guys to battle, costing us a city or two that were improperly defended, he will surely get voted out as soon as possible. Conversely, one who never takes advantage of a ripe situation will also lose favor.

The fun of this post (or so I hope, once our happiness issues are resolved) is having to pull for more units to conquer while maintaining a good defense - all while the people keep chanting "caravans, caravans, caravans".

	17-04-2002 02:56									#5
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No

• Because then there would be 2 advisors polling for the same thing,both requesting the same(ie millitary) units only for different purposes.(the explanation by MdS will be sufficient for more info about that)
  
• Because I added the spy/diplo thing to the job of the Foreign advisor because it's a natural thing and then this person would actually have something to do(think of it what is left when you remove the spies)
  
• It would also interfear with the job of the city planner--> whom is responsable for building troops to.
  
• I think this job would create serious conflicts with the job of Millitary advisor...most probably both would be in a constant quarrel/fight for units==>both wouldn't be able to do their job as supposed to do.
  

Shade

	17-04-2002 04:32									#6
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I don´t think we need it

	17-04-2002 05:03									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Nope. Let the military advisor do it to avoid confusion.

	17-04-2002 05:51									#8
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This is a terrible idea. This post would largely double the amount of military-related polls we have, with no reaL benefit. If spies and diplos were a larger part of our empire, then a minister could be appointed to deal with them. The downside to that plan, is that such a minister would have almost nothing to do, and would be entirely subservient to the military advisor.

Thanks for your input, Shadowlord, but it is not in the best interests of Apolytonia.

Steele

	17-04-2002 07:44									#9
	Suffering from ads?

No

-We need only a Military advisor- not many security issues are at hand and the leaders dont do much even now.

	17-04-2002 09:07									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

This idea would actully have a positive benefit on our democracy, as long as the avoid the problem of having two polls about the same issue. The benefit of this would be having two people who can see the game having the opposite viewpoint. Until now most of the polls have gone toward what the advisor told us to vote for. Yes, there are exceptions but many have gone this way.
With two advisors fighting to sway the peoples opinion, it would make the political aspect of the game more challenging.

	17-04-2002 09:09									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I say yes. Because I want that post. But we should call it the Commitee of Public Safety MUAHAHA!!! We must turn this "Democracy" into a Republic of Virtue!!! Ready the guillotine!

Of course all the advisors would be against this. It weakens their power!

Seriously, this is important. Though we may have Mike's now (or soon) it's clear that we were on the verge of revolution and rebellion before then. We need someone thinking about this all the time in order to make sure that we have the infrastructure to keep going. In addition, having someone in this post would mean that the military and other advisors would not have to predict when new infrastructure or other happiness stuff is needed.

Last edited by CannonFodder on 17-04-2002 at 09:28

	17-04-2002 14:05									#12
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I agree with the first post here by shadowlord!

	17-04-2002 17:15									#13
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I don't see a need here. We have a Military Advisor, and we also have a City Planner who sets up the infrastructure that creates defense..

Creating more High Council positions is a waste of time. Besides, we haven't had any problems in city defense. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just wait a month and run for office, shadowlord.

	17-04-2002 18:52									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit We haven't had any problems in city defense. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Exactly. This would be making the game more complicated with no real gain.

	17-04-2002 19:20									#15
	Tired of ads?

Not needed as for now, in case it shows that it will be needed later, we can concider that then, but as for now we don't need it.

	17-04-2002 21:02									#16
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quote: Originally posted by CannonFodder I say yes. Because I want that post. But we should call it the Commitee of Public Safety MUAHAHA!!! We must turn this "Democracy" into a Republic of Virtue!!! Ready the guillotine!

I was thinking more along the lines of the KGB (Which, AFAIK, actually stood for "Ministry of State Security" or something to that effect, which is where I got the name from :P - Note how the MSS would be in charge of ensuring order in our cities.... )...

quote: Originally posted by CannonFodder Of course all the advisors would be against this. It weakens their power! Seriously, this is important. Though we may have Mike's now (or soon) it's clear that we were on the verge of revolution and rebellion before then. We need someone thinking about this all the time in order to make sure that we have the infrastructure to keep going. In addition, having someone in this post would mean that the military and other advisors would not have to predict when new infrastructure or other happiness stuff is needed.

AFAIK that's the province of the City Planner - but yes, the MSS would be concerned with enforcing internal security by (keeping cities from going into unrest with troops too.

	17-04-2002 21:27									#17
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This idea is interesting.
But is our civ so complex to need it ?
And last month, we had no more candidates than cabinet members, so ther went no real vote.
Democracy means choice and let's the present members working (war advisor...).
Perhaps such a proposition is too early in the game.

	17-04-2002 21:56									#18
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quote: Originally posted by CannonFodder Of course all the advisors would be against this. It weakens their power!

You underestimate the extent of Sodaquista influence...

	18-04-2002 01:49									#20
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The military advisor should be competent enough to manage both attcak and defense units. Otherwise he shouldn't run for the position.