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danimal
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quote:
Originally posted by Lorizael
Evolution does not take place while a creature is alive! Some chimpanzee wasn't wandering around, transformed into a human because it would be better for the chimp, die, and leave behind fossils. That's not how evolution works.
But during reproduction, genes can be mixed up and in most cases will either kill the creature or have no effect. But every once in awhile a new organism is born that benefits from the mutation. And slowly, over millions of years, this small benefit will become more widespread and more advanced. And there most certainly are fossil records of better creatures appearing after creatures that were not... better. |
what a load of unscientific crap having no proof....zero...none...except speculation and myth
Show me concrete evidence of one scientifically proven example of evolution..except maybe for your brain evolved from a horse's rear end.
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Draco aka Se7eN
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Good post Fezick31
Lorizael LOL
I have read a lot of books on evolution if you wish to get technical so be it.
Lorizael your example is a part of Microevelution, that does not prove evelution. Microevelolution can be proved indeed.
Im stating that Macroevolution is false, the evolution of one creature into another. If you wish to argue how old the world is please ask. And dont think carbon dating is a fool proof method of dating. It is not scientific to rely on only one method to prove a theory. There are countless scientific ways to prove that the earth is not as old as you think.
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Draco aka Se7eN
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Where is this proof of Microevolution? Show me any fossle evidence of evolution!
Please educate me. With out fossle evidence how can you support evolution?
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Random Passerby
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Draco's point is fundamentally correct: Darwin's theories on the origin of species remain unverified and likely unverifiable. We do know that heredity exists, and we know that species do change and adapt over generations based on local conditions and favorable combination of hereditary traits. We do not know that humans evolved from monkeys, or that the majority of life on earth actually evolved from earlier, (generally) simpler life. Instead we can only look at present conditions and infer backwards, which is hardly set-in-stone proof.
That said, however, I agree with the inclusion of this as a wonder. Civilization's wonders are judged for their ability to impress and influence the world, directly or indirectly. As has been pointed out, Darwin's ideas have heavily influenced scientists in all fields--not because they all accept Darwin's proposed origin of species (with or without proof), but because of the sheer elegance of his proposed process of selection. Propogate effective traits; eliminate ineffective ones. This simple scheme has proven to make for accurate, effective, and self-sustaining models for basically any sort of life process.
As to creationism, the intuitive proof depends on whether you're assuming a finite reality or an infinite, all-encompassing reality (even one that doesn't necessarily encompass all at once, at least not in terms of our reckoning of time). In an infinite universe, it stands to reason that everything--no matter how unlikely--is probably going to happen at some point. Including us.
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Caligastia
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The problem with biblical creationists is that they wont accept any scientific evidence that contradicts what the bible says.
To me its obvious that there is a creator, but I believe evolution was directed by God and his "Life Carriers".
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Provost Harrison
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The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:18
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Draco, I have discussed this in the past, but essentially, you know nothing about this issue, even though you think you do. I am not going to go into the various proofs of microevolution or macroevolution again, check through the apolyton archives on this matter. Essentially, you are arguing without even looking at the facts of the issue. It is known as 'being brainwashed'.
By the way, I am more than willing to go head-to-head with you on a evolutionist debate. You, some snivelling teenage know-nothing, and me, Oxford graduate in Biochemistry. Get out there, read some stuff, and learn something. There is more to the world and reality than your little church
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
But who created the creator?
How is that an obvious thing?
It's one of the most illogical things I've ever heard. |
When I look at the world around me I find it difficult to imagine it all just happening by chance. Life has a design so intricate that it could only come from an intelligent creator IMO.
If you cant see that then I cant show you, you have to see it for yourself.
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Draco aka Se7eN
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The problem with Evolutionists is that they cant accept any scientific evidence that proves evolution false! Most evolutionists are grossly educated in falsehoods or are biased and will find any reason not to believe in god.
Look im not here because i believe in god. Im arguing because evolution is scientifically false.
Caligastia
You believe in Thestic Evolution. Unfortunetly because Evolution is false that doesnt hold eaither.
Asher
It is logical that their is a creater. On this planet we see creation all around us. When has anything complex ever spontaniously evolved or come about by accedent.
If any of you had any idea how complex even the simplest single celled organism is then perhaps you could put aside your biased believes and open your eyes to the facts.
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jep
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of Catan
Sep 2001
time: 05:18
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I don't know what's the funniest thing about this  . I've got a few choices:
1. That you think the theory of evolution is wrong.
2. That (ignoring the point of whether it is correct or not), you think the theory of evolution is insignificant.
3. That you pick another theory which is known to flawed as its alternative. This point certainly demonstrates a general lack of advanced scientific knowledge.
Of course, you're right on one point: the theory of evolution has never been experimentally tested in the way a typical scientific theory would be. Of course, this really is because origin theories are completely untestable. That doesn't mean you can't collect evidence in support of a theory however, and there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that indirectly supports evolution. If evolution was so flawed, how was it able to overcome the massive opposition to its acceptance, first in the scientific world and later to the general public?
Of course, your argument in favour of intelligent creation is so flawed, it's laughable. Let me summarize: 'There is no scientific [i.e., experimental] evidence in favour of evolution, therefore evolution is flawed. Since the only other altnerative is intelligent creation, intelligent creation must be what really happened.' Sorry to break it to you, but the lack of experimental evidence in support of evolution does not imply that evolution is incorrect, your reductio ad absurdum is utter crap. Sure, evolution may not have the same kind of experimental verification that quantum mechanics has, but I'd like to point out that intelligent creation extremely little evidence in support of it and it doesn't even fit the facts very well. Of course, the fact that it doesn't fit the known facts well, and evolution does just lends added credence to our notion that evolution is correct: there are no other theories that fit what we already know!
Other points: there is a fundamental difference between biblical creation and intelligent creation (which is what you're proposing, it seems), and you have to be a real idiot to mistake the two. This also seems to apply to you however, so the evidence fits.
I find the way you suggest relativity as a 'proven' alternative though. Good work  . Only one problem: relativity is known to be flawed - it is inconsistent with quantum mechanics which is accepted to be the 'better' theory of the two. Relativity is simply an incredibly accurate approximation of reality. Nice try, though.
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Provost Harrison
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The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Draco aka Se7eN
The problem with Evolutionists is that they cant accept any scientific evidence that proves evolution false! Most evolutionists are grossly educated in falsehoods or are biased and will find any reason not to believe in god. |
Do you really know what you are talking about? Do you have any idea of the amount of supporting evidence for evolution, and the manipulation of scientific principles, incorrectly, to produce 'creationist science'. Like how they use the 2nd law of thermodynamics to state evolution can't occur. Without really understanding the principle thoroughly.
quote:
Look im not here because i believe in god. Im arguing because evolution is scientifically false. |
Again incorrect, totally incorrect.
quote:
If any of you had any idea how complex even the simplest single celled organism is then perhaps you could put aside your biased believes and open your eyes to the facts. |
Better than most taking into account my educational background. But the question is, do you have any concept about how a single cell organism works? Do you have any idea of it's molecular biology, it's mechanisms of reproduction, it's metabolic pathways, translation of RNA into protein, how DNA mutation effects change, natural selection, do you really know? I presume not. Believe me, it is very complicated, and it is well documented how mutations work.
Believe me kid, the theory of evolution is no longer thought of as a vague theory. It's effectively fact.
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18-04-2002 01:58
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