22-04-2002 09:40									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Sava They don't need to put people in internment camps. Anyone who truly believes the government doesn't monitor just about anything is naive. According to Yahoo! magazine, every piece of data that is sent over the internet is intercepted by the NSA. Also, every word you speak on the telephone is sent through computers and key words are red flagged.

You don't know what you are talking about here. Aside from the enormous expense of merely intercepting all of the traffic in the world (IMO impossible for more reasons than that alone) or even every bit of traffic in the U.S., there is a lot more work involved in doing something with all of that data. Try a Google search on almost anything and then try to visit every site listed. Only the most particular searches are going to avoid bringing the NSA's analysis capability to it's knees. No one cares if something you say or write contains the word Marijuana or Jihad. To the extent that NSA is reading anything at all it is extremely specific to either a string of text or it's source. The technologies you talk about are not used willy-nilly, they are focused much more narrowly.

Aside from all of that, U.S. intelligence agencies are specifically barred from spying on U.S. citizens without a court order. When I was working in Army Intelligence (for the NSA) we intercepted a communication from a foreign source who we were monitoring. The object of our surveillance called the U.S. and talked to a U.S. citizen. We had to make a transcript of the call and delete everything the U.S. citizen said (though they were implicated in what were probably illegal activities), and only then were we able to forward the (half) conversation to the analysts. The NSA was very careful to play by the rules at all times in my experience, to the point of being almost ridiculous. This served it's purpose though, because everyone was well aware of the legal lines.

	22-04-2002 09:45									#62
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I'll start off by saying that I'm 50% Japanese. Some Hawaiian. The rest is European.

Well, I live in Hawaii and to tell you the truth, I think it's all based on society. Over here there is such a mixed ethnicity hardly anyone cares who anyone is. Over here a Palestinian can shake hands with a Jewish person. Or a "Haole" (white person) can eat side-by-side with an African American and not fuss about it. We're taught here that blood doesn't make a difference cause we're all the same and we all help each other here.

But to relate this post to the whole "ethnicity" thing....

The human olfactory system (smell) picks up subtle pheremones from people. Our natural pheromones are received by others and it is this reception that influences our behavior and "connects" us to people with the same biological background. Myself, I have a preference towards Asian people because I am mostly Asian. Added to the biological aspect of "connection" is culture. Similar people participating together in social activies helps bond them together and creates kinship.

Well that's all I have to say about that.

(That's what I've learned)

	22-04-2002 09:54									#63
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quote: Originally posted by frankychan The human olfactory system (smell) picks up subtle pheremones from people. Our natural pheromones are received by others and it is this reception that influences our behavior and "connects" us to people with the same biological background. Myself, I have a preference towards Asian people because I am mostly Asian. Added to the biological aspect of "connection" is culture. Similar people participating together in social activies helps bond them together and creates kinship. Well that's all I have to say about that. (That's what I've learned)

Where to start? Can you refer me to the science behind this? I am aware that diet can change the way people smell enough to cause a bit of discomfort (or whatever) in those who are not accustomed to it but I must say that this is the first time I've heard of a biological smell beyond that which is used to communicate biologically useful data like "I'm ready to have sex now", or "I'm gonna kick your as$". What possible purpose would biology have for getting people to identify each other this way? Asians come from many different strains of blood, how does you Japanese blood make you kin to someone from South China? I don't buy it at all.

	22-04-2002 16:11									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander You don't know what you are talking about here. Aside from the enormous expense of merely intercepting all of the traffic in the world (IMO impossible for more reasons than that alone) or even every bit of traffic in the U.S., there is a lot more work involved in doing something with all of that data. Try a Google search on almost anything and then try to visit every site listed. Only the most particular searches are going to avoid bringing the NSA's analysis capability to it's knees. No one cares if something you say or write contains the word Marijuana or Jihad. To the extent that NSA is reading anything at all it is extremely specific to either a string of text or it's source. The technologies you talk about are not used willy-nilly, they are focused much more narrowly. Aside from all of that, U.S. intelligence agencies are specifically barred from spying on U.S. citizens without a court order. When I was working in Army Intelligence (for the NSA) we intercepted a communication from a foreign source who we were monitoring. The object of our surveillance called the U.S. and talked to a U.S. citizen. We had to make a transcript of the call and delete everything the U.S. citizen said (though they were implicated in what were probably illegal activities), and only then were we able to forward the (half) conversation to the analysts. The NSA was very careful to play by the rules at all times in my experience, to the point of being almost ridiculous. This served it's purpose though, because everyone was well aware of the legal lines.

With a budget in the trillions, the government has the resources to do whatever it wants. Look at Microsoft. That is a blatant monopoly, yet they have not been broken up. I think Bill Gates and the Federal Govt struck a deal for hardware and technology.

A character and string search program isn't hard to write. There is speech recognition software (Dragon) that lets computers read sentences basically. One top of the line processor can read billions of lines of code in a second. Think about your ping time. With high speed internet, usually 20-120 milliseconds. That's more than enough time to read everything your computer transmits.

If you're going to debunk my theory, do it with logical arguments. My premise is that my theory is possible, not that it is true. The science is there. The technology and know-how is there. If you gave me a billion dollars I could probably build some kind of data intercept system. The fact of the matter is, this system has been around since the communications network in the US was first set up. The DIS (data intercept system) has evolved with the infrastructure.

One of my friends, who I am the godfather of his child, worked on such a system in the early 90's when he worked for then AT&T Bellabs (now lucent). Even then, on a 386 with 2 meg RAM, the program was able to decifer every bit of output with minimal lag.

"The devil's greatest trick was getting the world to believe he didn't exist." The government's greatest trick was making the public think that only wild-eyed conspiracy theorists thought of this stuff.

	23-04-2002 01:19									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Sava With a budget in the trillions, the government has the resources to do whatever it wants. Look at Microsoft. That is a blatant monopoly, yet they have not been broken up. I think Bill Gates and the Federal Govt struck a deal for hardware and technology. A character and string search program isn't hard to write. There is speech recognition software (Dragon) that lets computers read sentences basically. One top of the line processor can read billions of lines of code in a second. Think about your ping time. With high speed internet, usually 20-120 milliseconds. That's more than enough time to read everything your computer transmits. If you're going to debunk my theory, do it with logical arguments. My premise is that my theory is possible, not that it is true. The science is there. The technology and know-how is there. If you gave me a billion dollars I could probably build some kind of data intercept system. The fact of the matter is, this system has been around since the communications network in the US was first set up. The DIS (data intercept system) has evolved with the infrastructure. One of my friends, who I am the godfather of his child, worked on such a system in the early 90's when he worked for then AT&T Bellabs (now lucent). Even then, on a 386 with 2 meg RAM, the program was able to decifer every bit of output with minimal lag. "The devil's greatest trick was getting the world to believe he didn't exist." The government's greatest trick was making the public think that only wild-eyed conspiracy theorists thought of this stuff.

I think I'd like to be the first to say that you're a knuckle head.

	23-04-2002 01:31									#66
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Ethnic identification does not originate from people's smelliness, I'm sorry to say, but rather from perceived biological connections between peoples. The key here is perception. Russians and Serbs believe that there is biological similarity between the peoples since both speak Slavic languages, not on any real genetic research. Religion, like language, is often used by peoples to form an ethnic identity. I guess this whole ethnic identification thing is really just a symptom of the family being the basic unit of the human race, or something. It's still ridiculous. For the same reason people who adopt children are "parents," while the biological "parents" who don't actually do any parenting should not be called "parents" simply because they contributed genetic material. Perhaps one of the best case studies is Liberia, where American blacks colonized in the mid 1800's. They thought there would be some kind of brotherhood and understanding between the peoples, but they realized that they are truly different peoples, and that culture and socialization are not passed on through genes, but through experiences. Another good case study: the internment of Japanese-Americans in WWII. A number of Japanese joined the U.S. armed forces despite being at war with the "mother country." Loyalty, then, was to their new country, and not the country they were genetically linked to.

	23-04-2002 01:42									#67
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Again, I don't think most people view their ethnic identity as a genetic thing. No sane person thinks that Bosnian Muslims have a different genetic makeup from Slovenians, but they are separate ethnic groups. Ditto Russians and Ukrainians, Serbs and Croats, etc.

	23-04-2002 07:41									#68
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun OMG!!! We agree!

surprising

	23-04-2002 09:18									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Hoek Another good case study: the internment of Japanese-Americans in WWII. A number of Japanese joined the U.S. armed forces despite being at war with the "mother country." Loyalty, then, was to their new country, and not the country they were genetically linked to.

That's not a particularly strong case for your theory. National loyalty is not the sole definition of ethnic identity.

Ethnic identity is a mixture of genetic (family tree) and culture. I consider myself Chinese-Canadian because my family immigrated from China about 125 years ago and I was born in Canada. I feel a kinship to Cantonese people, although my loyalty is completely Canadian.

Even though my family has lived in Canada for several generations, we still have some cultural connections to China (e.g. respect for elders which is common in many cultures, but not particularly strong in general Canadian culture).

My national loyalty is only for Canada, but my ethnic identity is Chinese-Canadian.

	23-04-2002 09:39									#70
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud "Diversity" is trash. It only encourages differences.

Bah! Are you daft? What is wrong with differences? I sure as heck ain't DarkCloud. So right there there are differences between two persons. It is foolish to make me think like you, or make you think like me. So repecting our differences is a good approach. Why shouldn't groups of people do that?

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud All cultures should homogenize into one superculture.

I suppose the US "culture" should be the first to go then, since it doesn't really have one

So you are advocating the destruction of all the cultures on earth save one? So we can all be homogenised by a vast machine, that, in the end, we all become replacable parts?

You're disgusting.

	23-04-2002 09:51									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Anyone who truly believes the government doesn't monitor just about anything is naive. According to Yahoo! magazine, every piece of data that is sent over the internet is intercepted by the NSA. Also, every word you speak on the telephone is sent through computers and key words are red flagged.

1. Phone tapping is illegal without a court order.

2. Computers aren't sophicated enough to comb through speech and raise flags. The best algorithms have roughly a 50% failure rate wrt telephone conversations.

3. It is theoretically to intercept all the traffic on the Internet but not possible in practice. The daily volume is staggering. There are multiple points of entry and exit. There are multiple paths to each packet and multiple copies of each packet. The real killer though is analysis.