19-04-2002 21:48									#1
	1.21f is brilliant! Increase the size of your Attachments

It's very good. If you are in doubt, patch to 1.21f.
The game seems to be very near as good as it can get now.

Now it's time to improve the map/scenario-editor so it's possible to make your own map/scenarios.
(!minimap!!! )

Last edited by Hagbart on 19-04-2002 at 22:05

	19-04-2002 21:49									#2
	Tired of ads?

I refuse to upgrade as long as there is no minimap

	19-04-2002 21:50									#3
	Remove this text

My sarcasm detector is currently reading abnormal patterns, captain.

	19-04-2002 23:46									#4
	Got spare money?

21f is great for sure. I hugely lowered AI tech trading, and the game suddenly becomes so much more interesting. (to balance things a bit, I did give them some extra production).

	20-04-2002 01:52									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Saint Marcus, do you mind telling me how exactly (step by step) you lowered the tech trading? I've now used the editor exactly once -- today, to reduce corruption to 0.

Appreciate any help you can give.

	20-04-2002 02:24									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The corruption and AI tech trade modifiers make the game playable.

	20-04-2002 03:32									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I dunno, every game I've played so far on 1.21 has been almost completely unwinnable.

In every game, the AI starts out on good terrain while I get miles of jungles (even on Arid, cold maps) and the AI jumps off to this absolutely huge tech and city lead and I'm beaten before the ADs roll around. It's absurd.

	20-04-2002 04:11									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I just started a new game with 21 and wound up near miles of jungle too.

But I haven't lost, not by a long shot. I've got only half as many cities as the biggest AI, but I have double the culture of any AI. :P

And I had far fewer cities, but the AI's cities love to revolt and join my nation...

	20-04-2002 04:20									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Just one point, to solve this problem, choose to be the second player, (after barbarians). I think this will solve a lot of problems. I always had the same in CtP with 32 players.

	20-04-2002 04:20									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

DPII, are you sure you installed the patch correctly and aren't still using 1.17? I hate to ask such an insulting question, but yer fast tech AI sounds like the old version to me.

*Fitz loves the sound of the new patch and leaves work early to go download, install and start a new game*

See y'all on Monday to give some feedback.

	20-04-2002 05:04									#11
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Well, its not tech trading thats the trouble this time. Its the AI's production factor thats more of the problem. They were producing Settlers were produced probably about double the speed of mine, and wonders were being produced much faster than what I could do, and like I said before, by 500 BC the Babs built the Great Library! I never had that happen before.

By the way... whats an appropriate AItoAI tech trade rate... for the Regent level the default was 130. Was that 1.17f standard?

	20-04-2002 05:05									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm not sure, I never bothered with 1.17f. Ask Mike Brietzkreuntz. He's on these forums somewhere.

	20-04-2002 05:06									#13
	Re: 1.21f is brilliant! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Hagbart It's very good. If you are in doubt, patch to 1.21f. The game seems to be very near as good as it can get now. . .

Yeah, surrrre.

ROFLOL.

	20-04-2002 05:07									#14
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Coracle, your constructive addition to this conversation is refreshing.

	20-04-2002 05:11									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It's fantastic. Just as the game was finally grinding to a halt for me, along comes a patch which changes, er, virtually nothing.

Don't get me wrong, the tweaks and the editor patches are all fine. But we need something a bit more radical now, to make this game pick up again.

	20-04-2002 05:12									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Coracle is a real pesimist at the moment. One must at least agree that 1.21f is and improvment over 1.17f.

	20-04-2002 05:12									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

From what I can see my opinion of this gane is about halfway between Coracle and Grrr.

Of course I haven't downloaded the patch yet.

	20-04-2002 05:12									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

*runs up to Non Flammable*

The detector has gone haywire sir!!!

	20-04-2002 06:00									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm still in the early stages of evaluating 1.21, although I HATE the removal of the "multi.sav" cheat.

But there are scores of things that remain highly irritating and unaddressed by 1.21 from settler diarrhea, to wandering workers, to braindead unit values, no scenario-building, and tons of other stuff.

It may be more playable now. Maybe. But lots of work is needed.

It will be "perfect". . . when pigs fly.

Attachment: pigfly.gif
This has been downloaded 307 time(s).

	20-04-2002 06:03									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Coracle I'm still in the early stages of evaluating 1.21, although I HATE the removal of the "multi.sav" cheat.

For some reason, it does not suprise me that YOU would hate the removal of the multi cheat.

	20-04-2002 06:14									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

They did add the ability to do the: save before battle/lose/reload/win battle.

	20-04-2002 06:17									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

For which I am very thankful.

	20-04-2002 06:19									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski They did add the ability to do the: save before battle/lose/reload/win battle.

one cheat in, one cheat out. a wash? even though the multi is more powerful, I think the reload cheat will be used more by players than the multi was. Unless some players just turned multi on at the beginning and left it on for the whole game. (which to me would make the game incredibly boring, knowing where every enemy unit was at all times)

	20-04-2002 06:20									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My first thought was that 1.21 was more for the "modders"(which I'm not)...well I played my first full game and I give it .
What few little tweaks they gave us made the game much more tolerable...
IMHO

Spock

	20-04-2002 06:22									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Especially the corruption modifier. It makes the game playable for ICS freaks like myself.

	20-04-2002 06:24									#26
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel one cheat in, one cheat out. a wash? even though the multi is more powerful, I think the reload cheat will be used more by players than the multi was. Unless some players just turned multi on at the beginning and left it on for the whole game. (which to me would make the game incredibly boring, knowing where every enemy unit was at all times)

I agree with you there. The few times I did use the "multi" cheat was when I had a bad starting location. I would use it to see if there was anything close that was worth settling, if there was reload and play the game, if not start a new game.

The reload cheat I used a lot in Civ and Civ 2. I actually liked the fact that I couldn't do it in Civ 3. Now that I can, it may be hard to resist.

	20-04-2002 06:26									#27
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I only used the reload cheat for goodie huts in Civ II. Otherwise I didn't bother.

	20-04-2002 06:30									#28
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That is mostly what I used it for too. And the occasional, i can't believe I left that city undefended, so the Germans could come deep into the heart of my country and take my capital for nothing!

	20-04-2002 06:32									#29
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I loved the fatal bombard abilities, the player editor (no more will Mao pop up somewhere else as soon as I destroy him).

	20-04-2002 06:33									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski I agree with you there. The few times I did use the "multi" cheat was when I had a bad starting location. I would use it to see if there was anything close that was worth settling, if there was reload and play the game, if not start a new game. The reload cheat I used a lot in Civ and Civ 2. I actually liked the fact that I couldn't do it in Civ 3. Now that I can, it may be hard to resist.

exactly, which is why its great that Firaxis put the reload in as a setup option, not as an in-game preference, (really helps with the GOTMs). I may be alone here, but I am far less likely to reload the save and skip a turn in the middle of a war just to get a slightly more favorable return on a few battles the turn later, than I am if I can save before attacking with each and every unit.
(not sure that that made sense at all)

I can't handle the temptation....sometimes