14-04-2001 08:13									#1
	leaking technology Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This has been discussed in various technology threads, but I'm pushing for a model combining various threads, in the hope to get the civ community to come to some kind of consensus.
I believe it would be a good idea for technology points (not entire technologies) to leak through trade routes or perhaps embassies. This would mean that civs with many diplomatic connections would find that they could research various techs a lot quicker.
EFFECT the effect of this would be to create an incentive to harmoniously exist with other civs (because you would be effectively helping eachother with research) It would also add a strategic dimension to who you trade with, or make diplomatic contact with. Eg. Feudal Japan was able to catch up to the industrialised West so quickly, because they explicitly went about creating diplomatic ties with Europe.
COMMENTS?

	14-04-2001 08:16									#2
	Put an end to popups!

It sounds interesting, but don't you already get tech bonuses for harmoniously existing with others via tech trading?

I would also be worried that you would discourage alliances because people wouldn't want to give others that tech advantage!

------------------
- Cyclotron7, "that supplementary resource fanatic"

	14-04-2001 08:33									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Cyclotron,
You are certainly right about tech trading. However, I believe that this facet of the game should be significantly toned down. More specifically, you should only be able to receive (or steal) a tech that you have the prerequisites for. American Indians would not have understood nuclear weapons unless every prerequisite theory for nuclear weapons was traded to them as well.

	14-04-2001 09:19									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hmmm . . . I'm mixed on this one. I think there are many poor nations today that are far behind in technology compared to other nations. They may purchase high tech items, but are totally incapable of producing the items themselves. In some Civ games, I sometimes think it's too easy to catch up by stealing techs. This leads to the point I agree with ... nations should not be able to steal a tech unless they have the prerequisites for it.

	14-04-2001 22:10									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Here is how i believe that techs should be leaked. For every civ that you know that has the tech you want, it would subtract 5% of the cost of the tech. If you have a peace treaty with them it would be 10% and an alliance 15%. Also for every trade route you have with a civ with that tech it would subtract 1% up to 10% max. Also any civ that you havent met will subtact 2% from a tech.(due to marco polo and other traders who traded with civs who didn't know about each other.)

So lets say you are going to research Feudalism, and 3 civs have it one you havent met, one you have, and one with a peacetreaty. You also have 2 trade routes with the one with a peace treaty. For a total of 19% IF feaudalism cost 1000 science you would only require 810 beakers or science to discover.

Also wonders like the great library could be addapted to using some from of this (doubling this bonus until electriciy) or something like that.

Another thing to more accurately relate to modern times if the other empire has had for 50 turns it doubles its bonus to you and if it has had 100 turns it triples the bonus. In that way Japan could catch up to the modern world much more quickly.
[This message has been edited by me_irate (edited April 14, 2001).]

	15-04-2001 07:10									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Early tech should just plain leak across borders. People see a cart w/ a wheel, and the uses to which it can be put, they'll build a cart w/ a wheel. A horseman meets a warrior, the warrior sees the men on the horses. Don't you think it might occur to them to go trap some horses?

Or, alternatly, you get an elephant unit from a hut, but you don't have poly (believe in many gods and the elephants will let you on their backs?) so you ride around and pick up another hut which gives you poly. Essentially the folks in the hut mentioned to the people on the elephants that they were, in fact, riding elephants, much to their surprise, and they pick up that sci. My point is that if you get a unit from a hut that you don't have the sci for, then you should get that sci.

Yes, sci should leak!

	15-04-2001 07:15									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Perhaps, once you get a leaked tech (Taking a leak?) it should take a turn or two before it can be used. This would represent the time it takes for a civ to obsorb new knowledge and break old ways.