23-04-2002 01:50									#31
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quote: Originally posted by GP 1. What type(s) of messages did you deliver? What types of audiences did you target?

My clients that ran in the these types of magazines were McDonnell Douglas and Northern Telecom (now NORTEL), both accounts which I worked on for over 15 years each.
Obviously MDC was the bigger spender, as they were the largest defense contractor in the US at that time. We did generic "corporate" messages to make people feel like MDC was a good corporate citizen no matter what your political leanings were. We also did A TON of product specific advertising highlighting why MDC should either get a contract... or continue spending on contracts they already had. We did a lot of the"you are getting your money's worth with the F -15" type ads.
Also, if a program got in trouble... we were there. My favorate was when the guidence system for tomahawk cm's were having problems getting lost on terrain covered by snow because it was different than what the maps had... The head line was "Neither sleet, nor rain, nor snow shall keep the tomahawk from it's appointed rounds"... we won a few awards with that one
We also did the ole, support the space station type messages, since we would profit from it.

For NORTEL... we did some advocacy advertising during the fight for Telecom Deregulation... but mostly in just NJ and CQ.

I'll admit we NEVER ran in Mother Jones for either

quote: 2. Did you consider using the Washington Post, New York Times or Wall Street Journal to hit your target? Maybe the Sunday opinion section of the NYT or WP?

The Washington Post was our biggest expenditure... but a lot of that was due to it's far higher out of pocket cost per insertion.
We helped create franchise ad postions around the regular features/columns that covered the "HILL". We also helped "persuade" the WSJ to create a specific "DC" edition, so we could buy it in an efficient manner with minimal waste.
We used the NYT when we thought we needed to strengthen our support against the more liberals members of the HILL.

quote: 3. NR and TNR aren't as much of counterparts as people say they are. (I know it is popular to do so...) TNR is more scholarly in tone than NR (analogy might be NPR and Limbaugh...although both mags are better than their radio analogues..) TNR is also more middle of the road than hard left. Where NR is pretty hard right.

Today, your comments are pretty on target. It was different 15 to 20 years ago. TNR was much farther left and NR tried to be more scholarly, but both have changed over time. NR is more of a far right cheerleader now... and it's almost comical. TNR while trying to adress the popular center, still comes up with stuff that prompted this thread...

	23-04-2002 02:19									#32
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Yeah Marcus, this is an exception. If you want real right-wing isolationist gay-bashing misogynistic fervor, you have to read the National Review like I do.

	23-04-2002 04:21									#33
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Could you comment a little more on the audiences targeted, Ming? Decision makers?

	23-04-2002 05:39									#34
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quote: Originally posted by GP Could you comment a little more on the audiences targeted, Ming? Decision makers?

While it did vary some by campaign, over all, our key audiences were:

Executive Branch

The Senate
- Senior Aides
- Junior Aides
- All those that influence them

DOD
Joint Chiefs
Individual Services
Military bases near Washington

Key Lobbyist Groups
Media
Think Tanks
MDC employees

We used to do our own "readership" studies against these audiences. No surprise, The WP was read regularly by almost 95% of the people we wanted to reach... With the WSJ coming in second... Followed by Defense News, and then the all the opinion leader and trade journals. General media like Time and Newsweek also did well, and we usually bought those on a DC Metro basis only. Radio stations like WTOP were also solid. We would also spend heavily on the Sunday Morning Talking Head programs, which are a must viewing for our audience.

Now, other media companies have done similar studies which support all the early research that I had done.

	23-04-2002 06:04									#35
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Cool. I know WTOP. WMAL would also be good.

	23-04-2002 06:12									#36
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quote: Originally posted by GP Cool. I know WTOP. WMAL would also be good.

Yeah... we agreed... it was the only other radio station we bought

	23-04-2002 06:14									#37
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Ah, another writer cast the veil of doubt on Europe, and we see the same ol answers.

How unexpected.

	23-04-2002 06:27									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Yeah... we agreed... it was the only other radio station we bought

HMMM. Does this mean that this stuff is just common sense or does it mean I have a good intuition...

	23-04-2002 06:27									#39
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I am curious as to why Shimon Peres was specifically named by those who award the Nobel Peace Prize. Has he suddenly become a terrorist? Say, like Yasser Arafat?

Gatekeeper

	23-04-2002 06:28									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 Ah, another writer cast the veil of doubt on Europe, and we see the same ol answers. How unexpected.

Look, Chris! You just need to get it straight. It's our role to be the leader of the free world and EU's role to b*tch and whine. We're not supposed to waste time writing about EU silliness.

	23-04-2002 06:30									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Yeah... we agreed... it was the only other radio station we bought

I don't need to see any market research to tell what Washingotn opinion junkies listen to...or read...

	23-04-2002 06:30									#42
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quote: I am curious as to why Shimon Peres was specifically named by those who award the Nobel Peace Prize. Has he suddenly become a terrorist? Say, like Yasser Arafat?

Arafat was named by another group. Any suprise that our media has seized on the group that is for taking away Peres's prize and not the one that is for taking away Arafat's?

	23-04-2002 06:30									#43
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GP: Even if you get paid by the word?

	23-04-2002 06:32									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Any suprise that our media has seized on the group that is for taking away Peres's prize and not the one that is for taking away Arafat's?

I think that they should have covered the one that advocates taking away Arafat's myself and ignored the one for taking away Peres's prize.

	23-04-2002 06:33									#45
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I think they should have covered both equally.

	23-04-2002 06:34									#46
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quote: Originally posted by GP I don't need to see any market research to tell what Washingotn opinion junkies listen to...or read...

Good point... anybody that has done their homework could tell you that. But the research was used to allocate the available budget to the right media IN THE RIGHT PERCENTAGES. It was used to determine which were more efficient...

	23-04-2002 06:35									#47
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If you were going to ignore one group, you might as well pick the most ridiculous group to ignore.

	23-04-2002 06:39									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Good point... anybody that has done their homework could tell you that. But the research was used to allocate the available budget to the right media IN THE RIGHT PERCENTAGES. It was used to determine which were more efficient...

Sounds good. My favorite story of yours is still the cable ad buy for 1 person!!

	23-04-2002 06:39									#49
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quote: If you were going to ignore one group, you might as well pick the most ridiculous group to ignore.

The pro-Israeli crowd?

	23-04-2002 06:46									#50
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Imran, et al.:

This other group — the one that advocates the removal of Arafat's Nobel Peace Prize — does it have the same official capacity of those wishing for the removal of Peres' Nobel Peace Prize? Or are they just some third party w/o any connections to those who award the Nobel Peace Prize?

If so, my point is this: On one hand you have TPTB who award the Nobel Peace Prize wishing that they could take it away from Shimon Peres (and, conveniently, not saying anything about Arafat). OTOH, you have some fifth-rate unrelated third party demanding the removal of the Nobel Peace Prize from Yasser Arafat. What's more unexpected? The supposedly above-all-of-this Nobel Peace Prize Committee members or some inane group on the margins of history expressing a similar wish in regards to Arafat as the NPPC wishes for Peres?

My vote goes with the NPPC as the headline, deckhead, lead and top 1/3 of the story, with the rest of the story mentioning the wishes of this other group (among other salient points).

Gatekeeper

	23-04-2002 06:49									#51
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quote: This other group — the one that advocates the removal of Arafat's Nobel Peace Prize — does it have the same official capacity of those wishing for the removal of Peres' Nobel Peace Prize? Or are they just some third party w/o any connections to those who award the Nobel Peace Prize?

Actually the other group does have some people that are on the board that vote for the Nobel Peace Prize.

	23-04-2002 06:58									#52
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Imran, et al.:

So, basically, we have a p*ssing contest among members of the same committee? Big whoop-de-doo, then.

Gatekeeper

	23-04-2002 09:13									#53
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Ming, GP:

As a long-time DC area resident I've seen the full page issue ads which run opposite the "Hill" columns, two pages in front of the editorial page in the Post....and all the defense contractor ads on WTOP (all news radio)...they usually run just before the traffic report telling you how long the traffic backup is getting in to the Pentagon in the morning. Fascinating to hear the story from behind the scenes. Bit hard for me to imagine a defense contractor ad in TNR, but I did like the cable TV for one guy story. Go Golf Channel!

PS:
How do you find what the target audience reads? Specific surveys? Surveys done ofr other purposes? General media knowledge + educated guess?

	23-04-2002 09:18									#54
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Cable ad for one person? Must have been important.

	23-04-2002 09:36									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X Cable ad for one person? Must have been important.

A multi billion dollar contract

And Adam Smith. At the time, research was lacking. So we used our Summer Interns to make phone calls based on lists that are public knowledge (no cost). We let the females call over the hill. And they were great for keeping very important people on the line long enough to answer our questions... no surprise


It was also award winning stuff... we got great information on what they actually read, and what they had "clipped" for them.

And, we were the first Defense Contractor to EVER sponser the Traffic reports in Washington... My idea

	23-04-2002 09:38									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Ming A multi billion dollar contract

Care to elaborate?

	23-04-2002 09:41									#57
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Care to elaborate?

If it was my MDC example... it was to keep the Apache sold at the current levels of production/contract... Big Bucks.. a couple of Billion

If it was the Nortel example running TV for one person... then it was for Backbone switching equipment for Sprint... only multi millions...

As I always say... know who you have to reach, and do it right

	23-04-2002 10:09									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Imran, et al.: So, basically, we have a p*ssing contest among members of the same committee? Big whoop-de-doo, then. Gatekeeper

Yes, pretty much. But the Pro-Israeli crowd seems to bring up the group that wants Peres' prize removed, for no reason.

	23-04-2002 10:33									#59
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Ming, I used to wonder why you and RAH had so different jobs. (You shmoozy ad guy. Him dirt on fingernails, tech guy.) But now I see a common thread (market research).

	23-04-2002 10:35									#60
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To do my job, I have to understand my target audience. That's the key. If research isn't available, I just get it done however I can. It's information I need... for him, it's his "current" business.
Big difference