22-04-2002 07:37									#1
	The proof is in the pudding Remove this text

Clearly, if there is any question of whether or not Civ3 is a failure it should be clearly answered by looking at the charts. No longer in the top ten, it is being clobbered by such giants as Sims: Hot Date and Zoo Tycoon.

Why doesn't Sid just admit that the company fell short with this release and commit to doing a drastic remake right away?

	22-04-2002 07:43									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I dont think the charts ever show whether a game was a 'failure' or not. Look at Deus Ex, it sold pretty darn badly to say it was a ****in brilliant game, i think the civ series went abit wobbly with civ3 thats all. And also look at the sims, that just sold well because alot of 'non addicts' to PC games bought it.

	22-04-2002 07:47									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Civ being Civ, the release was guaranteed a bedrock minimum number of sales, beyond which it would sale based on quality. It is getting zero sales on quality. That is quite obvious.

	22-04-2002 07:53									#4
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I was under the impression that Civ stayed in the top 10 for a decent amount of time ... I am not certain though. I think it has sold well though.

They'll never do a drastic remake because the gain in saving reputation is probably vastly outweighed by the cost of remaking it. Gotta look at next quarter, not a still nonexistant Civ4.

And to be totally objective, a drastic remake isn't really necesary ... the game is playable, just not as fantastic as Civ2 was (yet at least).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally happy either, but it is not so bad as to really require a big remake if you look at it dispassionately as a computer game.

That is just how I see it of course. I guess I am kind of in a bland middle state myself ... don't hate it, don't love it, but would much rather play it than Civ2. Kind of sets me at odds with both camps.

	22-04-2002 08:27									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

A troll is a troll is a troll v3.54

	22-04-2002 08:34									#6
	Remove this text

Stooping to personal insults doesn't answer the question. Firaxis has a major PR problem and I do not understand why they do not address it in an effort to regain some credibility.

	22-04-2002 08:36									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Commenting on the nature of your posts is not a personal insult. It is a criticism of style. Something you should be familiar with given all the criticism of style you seem to be cabable of.

	22-04-2002 08:36									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Stooping to personal insults doesn't answer the question. Firaxis has a major PR problem and I do not understand why they do not address it in an effort to regain some credibility.

so you're saying that patching the game is not considered an effort to "regain some credibility" as you say?

Who does firaxis have a major PR problem with? a handful of people on one site. boo hoo.

	22-04-2002 08:42									#9
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel so you're saying that patching the game is not considered an effort to "regain some credibility" as you say? Who does firaxis have a major PR problem with? a handful of people on one site. boo hoo.

WORKERS MULTIPLAYERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!

	22-04-2002 08:56									#10
	Suffering from ads?

It appears as if the 43 of you have.

	22-04-2002 09:53									#11
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX WORKERS MULTIPLAYERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!

Hey buster - save your Commie propaganda for the Sim City games!

Regardless, I dont think CIV3 is THAT BAD.. I mean not nearly as bad as CTP I (About the same level as CTP II). It's slowly getting better. Using charts to judge something is just comformity - the gaming industry wants you to think that Sims Hot Date and the vacation pack is selling well so YOU'LL go out and buy it too! Listening to what other people tell you is always a bad idea (well, not always.)

I mean c'mon, the Matrix for instance got HORRIBLE reviews, but it was a great movie. And Civ3 is a GOOD game, it just falls short. So leave it at that, it isn't a failure. They made back their cost of production so I'm sure they are all happy.

I'm just upset that the advisors dont change as your government changes!

Chaing!

	22-04-2002 11:53									#12
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Civ3 was at top 10s for a LONG time.

Sims are always in the top (whole last year), since that's the game for very wide audiance. (I know many people, especialy female players, who only played ONE computer game: Sims)

I don't know even ONE product which was released in Q3 last year, and that is still in top 10. In fact Civ3 was in the top 10 more then any other game lately.

So, pople look at facts, before bashing Civ3.
Civ3 was very succesfull FOR Firaxis.

Maybe not for some hardcore Civ2 players.
But, you can't please everyone.

They would NOT patch this game if it wasn't succesfull.
It would end up like CTP2 (only 10,000 copies sold). One patch & buggy MP. (at least it had script language, so players could try to fix some things)

	22-04-2002 12:31									#13
	Re: The proof is in the pudding Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Clearly, if there is any question of whether or not Civ3 is a failure it should be clearly answered by looking at the charts.

The release of Civ3 now lays back already 6 months, so how long shall it stay in the Top Ten? Christmas is over now for a long time and you really can believe Civ3 had its sales share. Jeff Morris even said in the last Apolyton chat that sales numbers are insane. So I think the US version was a big success and I think Civ3 deserved it.

For the German version this may look different as Infogrames did not succeed in releasing a localized version before Christmas and, much worse regarding Christmas sales figures, they interdicted our fan translation effort to deliver a highly demanded German translation for this time of year. So Civ3 had no big sales over here before Christmas and Empire Earth ate the cake.

When Civ3 appeared in Germany in March it was a little bit too late and the incom-patibilities of the German version with many English mods were disappointing. Even worse, we now have 2 versions here in Germany (US, D) that are not compatible regarding the language and the version numbers (D-Version is still on 1.16), so we cannot develop a mod scene here. Another fan translation effort to unite both versions based on the official US patch and a fan translation also was interdicted, so regarding a united community we currently are in dead end here in Germany. But nevertheless Civ3 was in the Top Ten here for some weeks, but as far as I understand it, it could have done better. Of course the sales are ok but I believe that the initial expectations were not fully fulfilled.

However, looking at the big scale I am sure Civ3 was a huge success and I am sure we will see an expansion kit this year and a Civ4 in, let me guess, 2004.

	22-04-2002 12:35									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

jimmy, please do your trolls elsewhere...