23-04-2002 10:24									#1
	Im a convert Full PM-box? Change here!

I played this game in it's early incarnnations but I must say this game has improved 100%.
Im in the middle of a new game-1.21f-and it is great.
the tech whoring is still there but not as bad--Ive just entered the modern age and everyone is very even (regent level)5 out of 8 remain and it is very challenging.
Ive noticed the Ai using art.( but only in defence) and have seen few obsolete units attacking me.
I see an obvious improvement.
I still play on but I look for more surprises ---please give me more.

On a side note --My navy seems to meet more contemporaries than inferiors.

	23-04-2002 10:32									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Oh I forgot to mention the most important thing-----


When I fire an art. piece it lets me fire another in the stack next instead of jumping to a worker or something.

Last edited by Evil_Eric_4 on 24-04-2002 at 00:13

	23-04-2002 10:42									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I agree that the game is more enjoyable now.
and with each patch more can be accomplished through the editor. giving more people what they want from the game.
and eventually scenario support and mp.

i for one am glad it was released this way. and am enjoying being along for the ride as it matures as a game.

	23-04-2002 11:05									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think that with the next patch, the game will be pretty much complete (if the obvious features currently have baked into the editor are implemented).

	23-04-2002 13:46									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

If it's so good, why does it still CRASH whenever I use the Editor Firaxis gave us, supposedly to Edit their stupid unit values and useless units??

I won't play the game with the units and their idiotic values that came with the game; as soon as the Edited units start coming on line (with gunpowder) it crashes.

	23-04-2002 14:02									#6
	Got spare money?

You're special.

	23-04-2002 17:21									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Maybe you are doing something wrong. Are you renaming units? Adding units? If you are there are special things you need to do to make them work.

	23-04-2002 17:41									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

So far I have to agree that 1.21f patch is good. I'm in the early medieval age on a large map, large continents, max civs, regent and have noticed quite a few things.

The first thing that strikes me is the fact that I can now keep up with the early expansion while maintaining a decent military. Either I'm getting better or the patch made things a little easier, at least at regent anyway.

The second thing that I've noticed is a significant decrease in tech whoring. I am able to "keep up with the Jones's" by trading often. When I do trade it is rare that the AI has > 4 techs more than I do. Again, is this due to the new patch, or have I just improved my game style?

The last thing I've noticed is that the AI tends to stay polite longer now before switching to cautious, then to annoyed. Very curious actually. In all my games with 1.17f I had a very hard time keeping people happy and usually ended up going to war with the whole world. Has all your strats and advice finally sunk through my thick skull or does 1.21f have anything to do with this?

	23-04-2002 19:08									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Too early to tell, but I haven't noticed a big difference in the tech trading. Then again, I've played one game to 400AD, and have been beating on every AI I see. So I don't really need to trade tech - I'm beating it out of them.

One thing I have noticed is that the peace treaty renegotiation exploit is gone, or at least toned down. I tried renegotiating a treaty and actually ended up in a war I didn't intend to start because the weak-as-hell Indians wanted concessions from me for peace. Under 1.17, I guarantee they would have given up a couple of techs and their map to keep me from attacking.

-Arrian

	23-04-2002 20:22									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yeah, same thing happened to me. I've gotten used to just trying for renegotiated peace, just to see if I could get something.

I renegotiated with Babs and got construction and some gps (sidenote: we may not be able to get cities anymore, but try for other stuff), but when I tried it with Zulus, THEY demanded concessions. I refused on principle, so now we're at war.

I think that's pretty cool, that the AI trading algorithms are sophisticated enough to have two (or more) levels of trade requirements.

	24-04-2002 00:09									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And also the game is very stable now.
I ran it all weekend nonstop with long periods of idleness and it never locked up or slowed down.

	24-04-2002 02:32									#12
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Theseus I renegotiated with Babs and got construction and some gps (sidenote: we may not be able to get cities anymore, but try for other stuff), but when I tried it with Zulus, THEY demanded concessions. I refused on principle, so now we're at war.

Looks like Soren really paid attention to Aeson. Note the civ.

Was their civ colour orange by any chance?

	24-04-2002 03:53									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Zulu - Yellow
Babs - Roman Red
Persia - Bright green

Sort of annoying.

	25-04-2002 02:42									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The game has definitely improved. I still have a few problems with it though. For one, as soon as a war stops, the AI sends it's entire force at me. They throw themselves at the gates of my city, which I pack with as many definsive units as I can, and once their army is dessimated, it's simple to go in, and mop them up.

	25-04-2002 02:50									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by The Rook The game has definitely improved. I still have a few problems with it though. For one, as soon as a war stops, the AI sends it's entire force at me. They throw themselves at the gates of my city, which I pack with as many definsive units as I can, and once their army is dessimated, it's simple to go in, and mop them up.

funny, that's pretty much exactly what I do to the AI! I just send everything at the AI hoping to take out so much that they can't counter. And if I miscalculate and overextend, well, the ai can roll me. (which never happens )


(this message should be disregarded when MP arrives)

	25-04-2002 02:55									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm just annoyed at the city trade thing... I capture a german city in the heart of France, and the French are my allies... the city is useless to me and I know it will probably flip French anyways, so I decide I'll sell it to them. I put the city on the table, but they won't give me anything for it... it says they would even be insulted by 1 gold. Okay, maybe it's good that 1.21 made the AI less likely to trade away its entire empire, but you'd think they would at least trade me one gold for a potentially valuable city.

Besides that, though, I agree that 1.21 made the game much better, and finally made it into the finished product I'm glad to play.

	25-04-2002 03:23									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 I'm just annoyed at the city trade thing... I capture a german city in the heart of France, and the French are my allies... the city is useless to me and I know it will probably flip French anyways, so I decide I'll sell it to them. I put the city on the table, but they won't give me anything for it... it says they would even be insulted by 1 gold. Okay, maybe it's good that 1.21 made the AI less likely to trade away its entire empire, but you'd think they would at least trade me one gold for a potentially valuable city. Besides that, though, I agree that 1.21 made the game much better, and finally made it into the finished product I'm glad to play.

that it irritating. what i do is sell the remaining improvements, draft all I can, then give it to a different AI hoping that it will forestall war a little longer. Move from annoyed to polite or whatever.

Of course, I also give such cities to strange civs sometimes, in an effort to draw them into the battle against a third AI. Also, if I were you, I would give that city in the middle of france to a third party, as it will likely be somewhat productive for france, but not say, the germans who are on the other side of the map.