24-04-2002 22:53									#31
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I feel honoured!

	24-04-2002 23:28									#32
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Very interesting, Soren.

So with respect to culture *in a given city*, all that matters is who has more, not the ratio. Now with overall culture, is it also simplified like that? Whomever has more gets their number doubled in the city flip calculation? Or is it a range? 1 - 1.9 = even, 2.0 - 2.9 = 2x, 3.0 - 3.9 = 3x, etc.?

So, if snoopy captured a size 4 city (4 greeks) which has 4 "greek" squares, and snoopy's culture in the city is less than the prior owner, but his overall culture is equal, and the capitol factor is average (2000), and he puts 14 units in the city. Size 4 means no WLTKD. Assume no disorder.

(4+4)2 = 16 for the greeks. 16 - 14 units = 2. 2/2000 = .1%

The overall culture ratio is really important to the formula. If it simply doubles the number for whichever civ has more culture...

More culture for snoopy: 16 - 28... no chance of flip.
More culture for Greece: 32 - 14 = 18/2000 = .9% chance

If it's a ratio...

Snoopy's culture is 1.5x: 16 - 21 = no chance
Greece's culture is 1.5x: 24 - 14 = 10/2000 = .5%

Worse case scenario: Greece has 2x culture of Snoopy, city in disorder...hmm, is the Greek number (32)doubled for disorder or is Snoopy's (14) halved? Big difference: 32x2 = 64. 14/2 = 7.

Anyway, lets go along with worse-case: 64 - 14 = 50. 50/2000 = 2.5%

Hmm... any way you cut it, the chances of a flip under the circumstances Snoopy described are low.

Sorry for the rambling post... for some reason I find the nuances of the culture flip formula interesting.

-Arrian

	25-04-2002 01:45									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Very interesting, Soren. So with respect to culture *in a given city*, all that matters is who has more, not the ratio. Now with overall culture, is it also simplified like that? Whomever has more gets their number doubled in the city flip calculation? Or is it a range? 1 - 1.9 = even, 2.0 - 2.9 = 2x, 3.0 - 3.9 = 3x, etc.? So, if snoopy captured a size 4 city (4 greeks) which has 4 "greek" squares, and snoopy's culture in the city is less than the prior owner, but his overall culture is equal, and the capitol factor is average (2000), and he puts 14 units in the city. Size 4 means no WLTKD. Assume no disorder. (4+4)2 = 16 for the greeks. 16 - 14 units = 2. 2/2000 = .1% The overall culture ratio is really important to the formula. If it simply doubles the number for whichever civ has more culture... More culture for snoopy: 16 - 28... no chance of flip. More culture for Greece: 32 - 14 = 18/2000 = .9% chance If it's a ratio... Snoopy's culture is 1.5x: 16 - 21 = no chance Greece's culture is 1.5x: 24 - 14 = 10/2000 = .5% Worse case scenario: Greece has 2x culture of Snoopy, city in disorder...hmm, is the Greek number (32)doubled for disorder or is Snoopy's (14) halved? Big difference: 32x2 = 64. 14/2 = 7. Anyway, lets go along with worse-case: 64 - 14 = 50. 50/2000 = 2.5% Hmm... any way you cut it, the chances of a flip under the circumstances Snoopy described are low. Sorry for the rambling post... for some reason I find the nuances of the culture flip formula interesting. -Arrian

actually, 2.5% is pretty high... the city will probably flip once every 10-15 turns with those kind of odds. but that is the worst case.

the culture value in the city is a simple less-than/greater-than proposition. If the former owner has more culture there than you, the effect of their citizens/tiles is doubled.

the overall culture factor is a ratio. For example, if the Romans have 10,000 total culture points and the Greeks have 15,000, the citizen/tile value would be (((citizens + tiles) * 15,000) / 10,000).

	25-04-2002 02:09									#34
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Although I can live with culture flipping as it is, I think the element of emigration/immigration could have been implemented more "soft". A city could lose pop points to an adjacent city of another civilization, even repeatedly every few turns, till his own culture is built up. But it should not flip entirely. That would find more acceptance than the current system does.

	25-04-2002 02:38									#35
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Soren,

Ok, I understand now. Culture in a city is a 2x bonus for whomever has more, whereas overall civ-wide culture is turned into a ratio and then added as a multiplier.

Looks like strong culture is a warmonger's best friend I know it works for me.

Thanks,

-Arrian

	25-04-2002 03:05									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Looks like strong culture is a warmonger's best friend I know it works for me.

Oh, good lord yes! And I am glad that someone else seems to see this. I tend to be big big culture happy, often times putting liberaries and univerities as the first buildings built after temples. When you take into account that several of the culutral buildings are also happiness ones, having several of them helps keep your Republic or Democracy from expericencing war-weriness durring long conflicts...

Beyond that the abilty to "buy" a city (induce a revolt) is wonderful. All I have to do is ensure that I have 2 times the culture and then wait for a player to undergo a revolution (which usualy come when I am at war with the computer), and _wham_, I can pick up several new cities without having to go to war for them, and without any resistors...

Yep, culture is a warmonger's best friend...