24-04-2002 00:47									#1
	New Game Concept: Predetermined Victor Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Tired of actually having to sit through a whole game to find out who wins? Let's have a predetermined victor option, so that we can find out who wins right from the start. Forget all of that planning and stategy, let's just let the AI win. That way we can save ourselves the wasted hours sitting in front of the computer, and we can go out and actually get a job or patch up things with the family who left after "daddy went nuts". Why not? It seems like Firaxis is well on its way to doing that in 1.21 anyway.

As I've said before... every time I was starting a new game with version 1.21 it seemed like I was getting trounced from the get go. Starting locations surrounded entirely by jungles, AI industry lead, etc.

So I uninstalled and reinstalled to see if it made a difference.

Here are the results from my latest game...

On WARLORD, STANDARD map.

750 BC -- AI builds Great Library

400 AD -- AI builds Copernicus's Observatory

700 AD -- AI builds Adam Smith's Trading Co.

800 AD -- Russia, the least advanced civ (besides myself) constructs first Frigate... I have not even gotten Construction yet.

I think the first space ship would have been built around 1500 or so... I probably would have just been learning to make fire and stand on two legs at that point. Thanks for balancing the game Firaxis!!

	24-04-2002 00:55									#2
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Most of us don't seem to have that problem. If fact there are many who say the game is to easy.

	24-04-2002 00:59									#3
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Oh puh-leeze. If you suck that much, move to cheiftan.

	24-04-2002 01:04									#4
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What is your problem pal? Are you playing with 7 AI? If so your odds are supposed to be 7-1 against you. Quit whining. What did you expect, the game to be fun?

	24-04-2002 01:07									#5
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Hey, Jag Warrior... bite me.

I'm not the best player in the world I know that, but I always play on Regent... I moved down to Warlord because in Regent the AI had tanks before 1500 AD. This makes no sense, and it shouldn't be this way. I didn't have this problem BEFORE 1.21, so it makes no sense why I should be now.

I bet you'd get your ass whooped too if you were playing with this sh*t.


Further developments:

900 AD -- AI builds Theory of Evolution

-- Dom Pedro II gets pissed off and goes to the civ3mod file.

4000 BC -- New game... DPII plays as "God Pedro" has 25 Settlers, 50 Workers, and 100 UU's entitled "Judgement Day" with 90 Attack, 90 Defense, 50 Bombard, 40 movement points and lethal all the way! Dom Pedro II b*tch slaps the AI back to the stone age... Dom Pedro is happy


2500 BC -- Due to random combat, entire Judgement Day army wiped out by one warrior! DPII is angry!

	24-04-2002 01:11									#6
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quote: What is your problem pal? Are you playing with 7 AI? If so your odds are supposed to be 7-1 against you. Quit whining. What did you expect, the game to be fun?

Oh I'm sorry... I forgot that in 1.21 Diety and Warlord are the same levels.

	24-04-2002 03:04									#7
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Well, I believe I have discovered the reason for the AI's extreme leaps and bounds in the early part of the game...

When I was modding the game after getting version 1.21 I forgot to put in a prerequisite technology for Fascism, so all of the civs were switching at the very beginning of the game...

This certainly explains SOME of it, but some of it is just that 1.21f is tougher, but thats ok. I don't mind a little tougher, and since I reinstalled, the jungle problem is pretty much gone. THAT was most certainly a problem in the beginning, but it's fine since I reinstalled.

	24-04-2002 03:10									#8
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So, basically, you were B!tching about something that YOU did. So you could have the wonderful, perfect fascism government.

	24-04-2002 03:27									#9
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Oh, good thing I uninstalled and reinstalled like 5 times in the past few days while testing balancer 2.15, and finally deciding it was so horrible, that I uninstalled and put ordinary 1.21f back in and made a few minor changes... Then I started a Civ II MGE game on Diety, and found that, suprisingly, the AI DIDN'T kick my ass. Well, the first game it did, but the second game it didn't. Neither of us seem to be conquering anyone else's cities, despite the 3 nations at war with me.

Now I'm playing Nox Quest...

	24-04-2002 03:31									#10
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Although my changes are in a scenario, not the civ3mod.bic.

	24-04-2002 03:39									#11
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Hey, the bit about God Pedro had merit. At least he was keeping some sense of humour.

	24-04-2002 03:57									#12
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I've thought of doing that myself...

I had fun when I started an 8 player game on a map made of 99% ocean, with only two islands, both 4x4 or so. I built a city, so did one other guy on my island, the others stood looking stupid. I wiped them out ruthlessly after a while, then I eventually crushed the other guy on my island, and started sending boats south to try to reach the other island. Eventually one made it, I found only one living nation over there.

Eventually I realized the tech tree was horrible.. I was testing Balancer 2.15... So I didn't try conquering the other guy. The techs and units were horribly unbalanced. :-/

	24-04-2002 06:51									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Shadowlord Eventually I realized the tech tree was horrible.. I was testing Balancer 2.15... So I didn't try conquering the other guy. The techs and units were horribly unbalanced. :-/

Yeah well lets not mention you were TESTING A BETA VERSION OF THE MOD - which had making CHANGES that had NOT been TESTED before. If you don't like the balancer project then you should have never offered to test it in the first place. So kindly to not 'bash' it by claiming it's a horrible, unbalanced piece of crap - I do not appreciate it and I'm sure that the MOD's creators do not appreciate it.

And what is the point of beta testing again? Oh yeah - so you can assure everything works and suggest changes to balance out the gameplay. Duh!

Chaing

	24-04-2002 07:10									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II 2500 BC -- Due to random combat, entire Judgement Day army wiped out by one warrior! DPII is angry!

	24-04-2002 07:19									#15
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Wow, I play on Monarch regularly and it NEVER gets that bad as your situation Dom Pedro, what are you doing at the start of the game, building improvments

	24-04-2002 07:49									#16
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick What is your problem pal? Are you playing with 7 AI? If so your odds are supposed to be 7-1 against you. Quit whining. What did you expect, the game to be fun?

Personally, I see this as a major problem with Civ3. It should be eight seporate civs all working, with shifting loyalties, to become number one. If one civ gets to far ahead then the AI should be smart enough to ally against him to try to even the playing field a bit. Instead we have everyone else verse the human. That is a MAJOR defect.

Hopefully, they will come out with MP soon and we can solve some of Firaxis's mistakes by eliminating the need for a dodgy AI.

	24-04-2002 07:53									#17
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Eh? I always manage to rally AI allies to the destruciton of the guy in front. Believe me, they hate each other too...

	24-04-2002 08:23									#18
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Believe me, they hate each other too...

Thats why they pool their research.

	24-04-2002 08:27									#19
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I have no problem making the AI civs dance to my tune. Provided I maintain sufficient military strength to avoid them threatening me. If I am too weak, or have too little culture, then everyone starts trying to kick me around.

Might explain the them vs me that some people are observing.

	24-04-2002 10:06									#20
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Ok, lemme just clarify that the fascism thing only PARTLY caused the problem... the fascism government as I have it only SLIGHTLY better than the Despotism government, and the rate cap for science was 50%, so I don't think that's the only explanation...

The game is just naturally harder now, which is ok as long as its within reason. I'm going to play again with the fix to the Fascism government and see how it affects things.

And the Jungle thing was pissing me off mostly, but that seems to have disappeared since I uninstalled and reinstalled.

	24-04-2002 11:08									#21
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Dom, you should probably raid the strategy forum for some good building strats, starting in a jungle does suck, but everything else you described could be just from bad planning

	24-04-2002 20:39									#22
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The ability to give one of the AI’s more of a chance than the others would be pretty cool, then I know say Japan is going to kill everybody. And the only chance the AI has will be to create an alliance against Japan. Just kinda like a random scenario tool, could be called…
…Say…
…Pre-determined history would be simple like, all the AI’s have the selected difficulty level and the selected Civ is 1 or 2 levels higher. Does not mean its definitely going to win, just means its going to be the one starting all the wars and winning most of them, unless you but in of course.