24-04-2002 01:55									#1
	Peculiarity of culture flip Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I had a size 1 city culture flip to me on monarch. Fine. The funny thing is that the population is unproductive because they are 100% opposed to my oppression.

Doesnt it make more sense for a city that flips to you that the citizens would be happier than normal?

This may have happened with previous versions and I just didnt notice it, I'm not sure.

	24-04-2002 02:20									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

i've been ranting about that for months. another thing firaxis will eventually fix... you should be see as a liberator of opressed people (even when you conquer an opressed people by force)

	24-04-2002 02:30									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ya, that is pretty annoying... What REALLY bugs me is when I conquer a city and the people in it are angry saying "Hell no, we won't go". You would expect them to be angry that citizens of that city were drafted and killed, but be happy that the draft has ended.

Then again, I usually just set everybody in a conquered city to entertainers and starve them down to 1 so that I don't have to deal with them...

-- twistedx

	24-04-2002 03:13									#4
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Once again, If your friends and family were draft to fight a war, and the enemy took your hometown, would you be happy with them?

	24-04-2002 03:59									#5
	Re: Peculiarity of culture flip Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I had a size 1 city culture flip to me on monarch. Fine. The funny thing is that the population is unproductive because they are 100% opposed to my oppression. Doesnt it make more sense for a city that flips to you that the citizens would be happier than normal?

NOTHING about Culture Flipping makes sense.

It is just a braindead concept some half drunk Firaxian thought up at a beerfest.

	24-04-2002 07:03									#6
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX i've been ranting about that for months. another thing firaxis will eventually fix... you should be see as a liberator of opressed people (even when you conquer an opressed people by force)

If you think about it, this could be set up to be a useful tool for Democracies or republics waging wars against communist or despotic governments. If I as a republic capture a city from a despot the citizens should be happy for a while (whether they stay happy depends on the situation). On the other hand, if I as a despot capture a city from a republic the citizens should be unhappy (as now happens).

	24-04-2002 08:25									#7
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I posted a thread about this phenomenon about 2 months ago. I call it "Inherited Discontent", and no, it doesn' make sense.

	24-04-2002 09:10									#8
	Re: Re: Peculiarity of culture flip Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

While I like the idea and general implementation of culture flip, I also agree that change is needed in the unhappiness factors of those flipping civilians... if they want to join me, they should be happy about it. As for the draft, people traumatized by losing their loved ones in war probably won't jump for joy simply because their city has also been taken in a bloody battle. Still, there is something to be said for ending the draft and the happiness that should benefit... it's a tough call.

quote: Originally posted by Coracle NOTHING about Culture Flipping makes sense. It is just a braindead concept some half drunk Firaxian thought up at a beerfest.

Ah, the joy of senseless and pointless posts. How did I ever enjoy Apolyton before this kind of stuff came around?

	24-04-2002 09:45									#9
	Re: Re: Re: Peculiarity of culture flip Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Ah, the joy of senseless and pointless posts. How did I ever enjoy Apolyton before this kind of stuff came around?

Greatly.

	24-04-2002 17:32									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Once again, If your friends and family were draft to fight a war, and the enemy took your hometown, would you be happy with them?

You miss the point. The unhappiness from drafting comes from the fear to be sent to the frontline. As I capture the city, I am a new leader. They don't know if I'm about to draft or no, so they don't have to protest against drafting - yet.

	24-04-2002 18:02									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH If you think about it, this could be set up to be a useful tool for Democracies or republics waging wars against communist or despotic governments. If I as a republic capture a city from a despot the citizens should be happy for a while (whether they stay happy depends on the situation). On the other hand, if I as a despot capture a city from a republic the citizens should be unhappy (as now happens).

Yes, that's why the Vietnamese were so happy to be "liberated" by the Americans.

	24-04-2002 18:24									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Zachriel Yes, that's why the Vietnamese were so happy to be "liberated" by the Americans.

I'm not sure if thats a joke or not?

Europe was happy to be liberated from Nazi Germany though. Do you figure the Afghan's were unhappy about the end of the taliban regime?

	24-04-2002 18:40									#13
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Actually, the Northern Alliance isn't really any better than the Taliban.

	24-04-2002 18:47									#14
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Off the top of my head, I think that at least 50% of the population wouldn't agree with you (ie women). Any that appreciate art and music wouldn't agree with you. Men who dont want to grow beards wouldn't agree with you either.

	24-04-2002 18:59									#15
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I'm not sure if thats a joke or not? Europe was happy to be liberated from Nazi Germany though. Do you figure the Afghan's were unhappy about the end of the taliban regime?

"Happiness" in Civ3 is actually a measure of productivity. Afghanistan will take a generation to return to any sort of normal productivity -- unless there is massive foreign investment in infrastructure. Meanwhile, the survivors pick through the rubble and search for lost relatives.

	24-04-2002 22:19									#16
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quote: "Happiness" in Civ3 is actually a measure of productivity.

Disagree.
"happiness" in Civ3 is a measure of crowd stability. As the population becomes less happy, there is the threat of riots that's growing. Making people "happier" keep them happy enough for them not to revolt.

	24-04-2002 22:31									#17
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What happens when you abandon the size one city? Does the unhappiness pass to another city, or dissapear? You might want to save before testing.

	24-04-2002 22:40									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Akka le Vil Disagree. "happiness" in Civ3 is a measure of crowd stability. As the population becomes less happy, there is the threat of riots that's growing. Making people "happier" keep them happy enough for them not to revolt.

You are right! That is actually a more accurate description. Certainly, a contented population and a very happy population have the same productivity.

However, in the case of very unhappy populations, the result is low productivity (with lots of entertainers), or no productivity (in the case of revolt), so I chose to use a more limited definition relevant only to this situation.

Thanks for the clarification.