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MrBaggins
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Still not information... still just data...
The DNA instructions start from an origin and build out. Each type of cell will have a set size, and partners will also have a dependent on that type... so vectors; shapes essentially can be created, by dumb data, dumb processes with dumb stem-cells.
would you comment on needing to observe a common factor in the DNA data corresponding with a long neck for those genes to be information TO YOU?
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MrBaggins
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
It doesn't matter what we observe or what is information "for us". The information is for the particular organism. It is an information processing system. |
Does not have to be information... again can be data... again wishful thinking.
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MrBaggins
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So if DNA is information...
what does
AAAG
GTTA
ACGT
mean?
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MrBaggins
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Eureka... a human examining DNA without any context of where it is from or other examples of DNA provides NO information.
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Lincoln
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If there is no information in DNA then all of biology needs to start from scratch again. There really is no question. I suggest that you look up "DNA,information" on a search engine. We are arguing over a non issue. And please explain the "long neck" problem. I don't understand your point.
Goingonit,
The topic is the SOURCE of information. Yes, chemical laws use it but that does not explain the source.
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MrBaggins
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
If there is no information in DNA then all of biology needs to start from scratch again. There really is no question. I suggest that you look up "DNA,information" on a search engine. We are arguing over a non issue. And please explain the "long neck" problem. I don't understand your point.
Goingonit,
The topic is the SOURCE of information. Yes, chemical laws use it but that does not explain the source. |
No what it means is that DNA is not informational for humans, unless used in a comparitive sense with the real data processing result; the grown beings.
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MrBaggins
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and DNA doesn't need to start again... it has a set of dumb specific chemical instructions for dumb stem-cells to grow. It would have done so if humans never evolved.
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Lincoln
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Information is used by a computer. Yes__ No__
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MrBaggins
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no.. information can be provided to a computer where it is stored as data. the computer cannot reason, and hence cannot understand information.
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MrBaggins
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The point about the long neck DNA is...
If a human never decerned the particular combination of genes that would result in a long neck, then those genes would be meaningless data to you. but they would be useful data to the stem-cells.
Indeed we understand the effects of very little DNA, so most DNA is meaningless data to us.
Last edited by MrBaggins on 25-04-2002 at 20:23
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MrBaggins
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delete
Last edited by MrBaggins on 25-04-2002 at 20:24
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Lincoln
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I hope that you are all looking up "DNA,information". There is no argument really. And yes the information is stored as data but the topic is the source. It uses the information that was entered into it and processes it as data without understanding it. In other words, it uses it.
I agree with your point on the long neck but what is your reason for bringing that up. What exactly is you point? Please spell it out. What are you trying to prove or suggest here?
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MrBaggins
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Actually... DNA doesn't fit YOUR definition of information
4. Pragmatics.
This is the practical level. What does this actually do? Answer; It makes specific proteins. The whole idea of the code is to actually do something practical which is the making of specific proteins with a specific function that perform specific tasks that are useful in the organism. DNA when translated by the ribosomes and the accompanying machinery actually produces the desired product. Information to be useful must actually do something. The information contained in DNA actually works and has a practical value.
DNA does nothing... it is used by a dumb process
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MrBaggins
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That the definition that we have placed on DNA being information only applies to us, in our search for mapping DNA.
DNA can be (and is) data for a data-processing process.
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MrBaggins
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if we don't know the entirety of the DNA, then DNA is not all informational to us... only data
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MrBaggins
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DNA closely matches the definition of data, yet not information.
INFORMATION
1. the communication or reception of knowledge or intelligence.
2.a knowledge obtained from investigation, study or instruction.
2.b intelligence, news
2.c facts, data
2.d a signal
DATA
1. factual material used as a basis especially for discussion or decision: information
2. something used as a basis for calculating or measuring.
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Lincoln
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"DNA does nothing... it is used by a dumb process"
Well you are finally getting the point. Which brings us to the topic. That is the source of information contained in DNA. Just like a computer program is a "dumb process" it has as its source an intelligent being that is capable of making value judgments. Call that information "data" or "bits" or whatever it is still operating as a result of intelligent input. DNA is not intelligent. I never said it was. If you are saying that it contains dumb data then you are correct if you understand the source of that data.
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MrBaggins
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If I am getting the point and that statement is correct then YOU HAVE PROVED that DNA is not INFORMATION according to your definition. Thank you for clearing that up.
Regarding the computer algorithm, I created a natural example of the algorithm, possibly naturally occuring with no 'creator' but natural forces... data does not need even an intelligent originator
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Lincoln
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Of course the next question is:
Does a book contain information? Yes__No__
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MrBaggins
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No.. a book contains a variety of atoms in a variety of vectors.
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Lincoln
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"ALL DNA DOES IS CAUSE REACTIONS TO OCCUR BY VIRTUE OF ELECTRICAL CHARGES!"
That is all a computer does. But it still contains information that is used.
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MrBaggins
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and light photons provide your eyes with data, which your brain translates into information.
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MrBaggins
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
"ALL DNA DOES IS CAUSE REACTIONS TO OCCUR BY VIRTUE OF ELECTRICAL CHARGES!"
That is all a computer does. But it still contains information that is used. |
No it contains data.
You just inferred that it wasn't... and it DNA alone fits the definition for data, and not information.
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MrBaggins
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It doesn't cause... other processes use IT.
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25-04-2002 06:28
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