24-04-2002 07:01									#1
	additional good (and bad) civspecific units Remove this text

This is an idea for anyone who wants to implement it...

In my own personal modding, I have added a unit to every civ as a UU i guess.. but without the possibility of a golden age (just my decision)...

and i was thinking tonight as i was watching a hockey game (dont ask me what that has to do with it)... What about UU's that not only have little point, but actually suck?

What if i forced certain nations to use below-par tanks, or sub-standard riflemen? It would be realistic (because throughout history, some nations have become known for their less than spectacular armies) and it would add another level to the game i think.

Also, it might encourage a civ to be much less war-like in certain periods, where their primary defense or offense unit just plain sucks.

just my humble opinion... any thoughts? and any ideas for sucky UU's?

	25-04-2002 03:42									#2
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Substandard UU's is an interesting idea to give each civ a little more personality. However, balance is still the key factor, so the substandard units should have a lower cost, or require fewer resources, to build.

Another idea for UU's I had was to give every civ a UU for each era. This would involve a lot of creativity trying to think of UU's for certain civs, like the Persians or Aztecs, in the industrial or modern era, considering they didn't really survive that long in history.

	25-04-2002 19:54									#3
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That's a really interesting and novel idea you have there. and one that would definitely add another dimension to warfare for each civ. However, one problem would be the AI... it wouldn't know about its less useful UU and attempt to remain peaceful whilst that unit is available.

Still i like the thought.

For instance:

Aztecs: poorer tanks
Zulus: poorer transports
Persians: poorer fighters
Babylonians: poorer infantry
French: poorer artillery
Egyptians: poorer battleships
Greece: poorer cavalry
Americans: poorer knights

?!

Could imbalance but certainly a cool idea.

	25-04-2002 23:34									#4
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I generally agree with all the above, except it is completely irrational for the French to have substandard artillery, considering that during the hundred-year war with England they [the French] revolutionized warfare by having better cannons (which were a new player on the battlefield).
I think that Babylon should also recieve some UU other than Bowman, so the bowman can become a standard unit (with slight stat boost) and the Longbowman can replace the Man-O-War...
But, that all just my humble opinion...

	26-04-2002 00:40									#5
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Actually I think the AI would be able to cope to some extent... the AI is now more aware than ever of units' attack/defense values--supposedly the AI takes A/D values into account on both a strategic level (Soren Johnson stated a while back that the AI evaluated armies based on the sum of their A/D values) and a tactical level (especially under 1.21, the AI tends to rely more on A/D values in choosing its actions than it does preset AI strategies). Still, human players would still be much more aware of where the defecit occurs and how to cope with it.

	06-05-2002 20:05									#6
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Just because a nation has substandard military has never stopped them going to war. The american and italian tanks were on the whole not very good, but both nations took part in WWII.
The Americans actualy did quite well, because although their tanks sucked they had so many of them, they were able to win by sheer whight of numbers. This is exactly what the A.I. tries to do. If it doesn't have oil it will make loads and loads of cavalry (and probably long bow men as well I am going to make long bow men obsolete by nationalism) And attempt to swamp your units. If it doesn't have aluminium, it will build loads of outdated tanks and infantry.

the french could have faulty tanks. At the start of WWII there were many labour disputes and comunist factions sabotaged tank and plane production. Many french tanks broke down before they even reached combat. In a WWII scenario this is easy to simulate, but in a general game there is no reason why other civs shouldn't have the same problems.